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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 53418 times)

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Quote
but max voltage on collector on that picture is 100v, isn't it ?
I think it is very unlikely to have corona discharge in the air at 100v

I think "distortion" here is a result of multiple reflections in primary coil.
If you want make it look better you need adjust it's length and width so it could resonate on a secondary coil's harmonic. Probably easier (not sure if better) option to add small capacitor in parallel to primary and tune with it.

Vasik




Vasik,

voltage on collector on that picture is around 100v yes, but that means that the voltage on the kacher secondary top / antenna is much higher (like 1.5KV measured), thus corona discharge is a posibility.

As i also have used a 350V GDT (which was firing, see posts on that) on the antenna to ground it also shows we have more then 350V on the antenna.


But i agree with you that the "distortion" here is probably more a result of multiple reflections in primary coil.


Itsu 
   

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Itsu,

voltage on collector on that picture is around 100v yes, but that means that the voltage on the kacher secondary top / antenna is much higher (like 1.5KV measured), thus corona discharge is a posibility.
As i also have used a 350V GDT (which was firing, see posts on that) on the antenna to ground it also shows we have more then 350V on the antenna.
But i agree with you that the "distortion" here is probably more a result of multiple reflections in primary coil.

Yes, but I think even with 1.5KV still corona discharge is unlikely. To get discharge with 1.5KV you need a tiny gap.
On that picture 350V GDT was firing every send time, probably because there were not enough voltage.

Vasik



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But i agree with you that the "distortion" here is probably more a result of multiple reflections in primary coil.
Do you disregard these PW's observations below ?

During the Q6 on period, the first few cycles of oscillations appear fairly clean and sinusoidal.
No "reflections"

However, as those oscillations increase, we begin to see higher frequency spikes impressed on the collector voltage
"reflections" with increased amplitude.

...and as the amplitude decreases later on, the "reflections" disappear again.

Presto! Amplitude-dependent "reflections"  8)
   

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Yes, but I think even with 1.5KV still corona discharge is unlikely.
...but partial discharge is not. See the attachment:
   

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No i do not disregard PW's observations, i do see those higher frequency spikes impressed on the collector voltage, but i don't think they are caused by corona discharge.     

How those Amplitude-dependent "reflections" are created i don't know, but i am winding a new 6 turn primary in trying to clean up the collector signal.


just saw your PDF, i will have to read that lateron.   



Itsu
   

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Presto! Amplitude-dependent "reflections"  8)

Scope traces not really accurate for such conclusion  ;)


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PW,

If you mean these oscillations (marked red) they will be there even if I remove Q6 (but I haven't tried disconnecting secondary coil).
These oscillations caused by Q4, Q5 switching.

* osc1.jpg

Vasik

Vasik,

In this post you provided a scope shot showing oscillations.  Can you tell me a bit more about how this scope capture was made?

For example, did you actually have Q6 removed?

Is channel 2 just a probe laying close to the Kacher?

The reason I ask is that your oscillations never ring down/decay all the way to zero amplitude between TC pulses, possibly indicating your Kacher has a higher Q (or less leakage) than Itsu's.  It also appears that your circuit oscillates at a slightly higher frequency than Itsu's.

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

PW
   
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Vasik,

Does the Kacher frequency need to have a particular relationship to the push-piull frequency (harmonically related, phase, etc.)?

Thanks again,
PW





   

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PW,

Vasik,
In this post you provided a scope shot showing oscillations.  Can you tell me a bit more about how this scope capture was made?
For example, did you actually have Q6 removed?
Is channel 2 just a probe laying close to the Kacher?
The reason I ask is that your oscillations never ring down/decay all the way to zero amplitude between TC pulses, possibly indicating your Kacher has a higher Q (or less leakage) than Itsu's.  It also appears that your circuit oscillates at a slightly higher frequency than Itsu's.
Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.

I am quite surprised how much attention this simple schematic gets :)
osc1.jpg is left image from osc.jpg (attached)
At that moment Itsu had issue getting oscillations and topic was flooded with all kind of "strange" suggestions.
To stop that, I took a coil from some of my old projects and built a kacher.
Coil looks like this (except that I used different primary coil, 6 turns thick wire, don't have a photo), secondary was significantly longer than 38m, that is why it is oscillating longer and on lower frequency.

Quote
Is channel 2 just a probe laying close to the Kacher?
yes, this way it forms capacitive voltage divider with stray capacitance and probe own capacitance

Quote
did you actually have Q6 removed?
Yes, but not on this photo
I also didn't get oscillations at first trial and suspected that Q6 is dead, so I cut it off first.
After oscillations remained in place I got idea what was wrong there :)
Adjusting R17 fixed the issue.

Vasik

PS My advice to everyone interested in this topic - go to the lab, practice. You will learn much more and much faster. There are very limited knowledge about these devices in standard physics books. You will get nowhere by theorizing on the sofa.



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Vasik,

Does the Kacher frequency need to have a particular relationship to the push-piull frequency (harmonically related, phase, etc.)?

Thanks again,
PW

PW,

Yes.
Have you noticed pdf files with transcripts I made of Stalker's videos ?
There are quite extensive explanations how system built and tuned.
It was quite serious effort to make these files.

So, I am wondering, are they so bad that nobody can't make sense of them ? (this is question to everyone, not only to you PW)

Or they just too big, so that you don't want waste your time reading ?  >:-)

Vasik


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PW,

I am quite surprised how much attention this simple schematic gets :)
osc1.jpg is left image from osc.jpg (attached)
At that moment Itsu had issue getting oscillations and topic was flooded with all kind of "strange" suggestions.
To stop that, I took a coil from some of my old projects and built a kacher.
Coil looks like this (except that I used different primary coil, 6 turns thick wire, don't have a photo), secondary was significantly longer than 38m, that is why it is oscillating longer and on lower frequency.
yes, this way it forms capacitive voltage divider with stray capacitance and probe own capacitance
Yes, but not on this photo
I also didn't get oscillations at first trial and suspected that Q6 is dead, so I cut it off first.
After oscillations remained in place I got idea what was wrong there :)
Adjusting R17 fixed the issue.

Vasik

PS My advice to everyone interested in this topic - go to the lab, practice. You will learn much more and much faster. There are very limited knowledge about these devices in standard physics books. You will get nowhere by theorizing on the sofa.

Vasik,

Thanks for your reply.  I understand this is a simple circuit (basically a gated Slayer type TC), but Stalker's added complexity such as the three gates of propagation delay and duplicating the high (and lo) side driver in discrete components makes one wonder if all that extra complexity was done for a particular purpose or not.

Your scope shots appear to indicate that your TC oscillations decay at a slower rate than Itsu's which may indicate your TC has a higher Q or less leakage than Itsu's.

PW





   

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I have created https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4154.0 in a hope to make information access easier.


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At 23:30 in this video, a series of pulses are being discussed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeEaKI1TZ3s

Does anyone have info on these pulses and the circuit he is using to generate these pulses.  They appear to be generated from a separate circuit not included in the Stalker schematic.

PW

   

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They appear to be generated from a separate circuit not included in the Stalker schematic.
There is a video by Stalker with a schematic that discusses a circuit capable of generating such pulses at time index 6:24
https://youtu.be/Bhc1xFNgrVA?t=384

In this document, Vasik has done a rough translation of author's statements made in that video. All people who do not understand Russian should thank him for that tedious work.

I am not certain that the circuit shown at the time 6:24 is responsible for these bursts of pulses in all versions of the Stalker's device.
I think that in some versions, the gated self-excited oscillations of the amplifier(BJT) + coil/antenna loop  (a.k.a. Kacher) are responsible for generating these pulse bursts - but I'm uncertain about this.
« Last Edit: 2021-06-24, 10:17:10 by verpies »
   

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   PW:
   Stalker is showing which schematic he is following. It is the same as what we are looking into, here. The complicated one...I think that Itsu is familiar with that version. As I believe that he built it, or something similar, at one time.
 Why Stalker chooses to "complicate" things, is a bit illusive to me as well, but, what do I know. Although, I was one that was going to build that particular circuit. However, I also found it very complicated, myself, and wondered the same thing. Is this really the easiest best way to go???  And I'm still hesitant on going there, before all the dust clears. What dust, you may ask? Well how about we start with the base resistor R17 circuit, as it's just plain wrong, and anyone going there will blow the transistor, again, and again. Or won't get it to kick on, at all. Unless, unless you know what you're doing. Which most of us don't, and will step right into that hole. Like I did, and Itsu, and Vasik.  So, how about we correct that first...  Or not, it's up to whoever wants it to work, the FIRST time.

   NickZ

   Vasik:  Good to hear back from you, we missed you here. I figured that you would also have problems with the base circuit, from the way it's drawn out, 100 to 150 volt pulses, needs correction, perhaps like much less than the 1.5 amp current limit, 1.5v base voltage, or less.
    Most of these schematics do need some updating.  Now that we know, like what actual value the R17 should be for the given voltage/current needed. And, yes, it will involve a trimmer pot, like Itsu had to install, for any variable voltages. First stumble, over with...
                                                                                                                                     Cheers.
« Last Edit: 2021-06-24, 15:04:02 by NickZ »
   
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More questions:

If able to, could someone please translate the following from Alexeev's schematic Verpies posted a few pages back?

"niz resanans" and, "verh resanans"

Thanks,

PW
   
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... it's up to whoever wants it's to work, the FIRST time.

   NickZ


NickZ,

Aren't we supposed to assume that someone already made this work a "first time"?

Do you have a photo of your replication you could post, or a link to one, that I could take a look at?

Thanks,

PW

   

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At 23:30 in this video, a series of pulses are being discussed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeEaKI1TZ3s

Does anyone have info on these pulses and the circuit he is using to generate these pulses.  They appear to be generated from a separate circuit not included in the Stalker schematic.

Device can be constructed using Tesla coil or kacher.
Here Sergei showing Tesla coil variant.

Vasik


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There is a video by Staker with a schematic that discusses a circuit capable of generating such pulses at time index 6:24
https://youtu.be/Bhc1xFNgrVA?t=384

In this document, Vasik has done a rough translation of author's statements made in that video. All people who do not understand Russian should thank him for that tedious work.

I am not certain that the circuit shown at the time 6:24 is responsible for these bursts of pulses in all versions of the Stalker's device.
I think that in some versions, the gated self-excited oscillations of the amplifier(BJT) + coil/antenna loop  (a.k.a. Kacher) are responsible for generating these pulse bursts - but I'm uncertain about this.

Yes, this is pulse burst generator to drive Tesla coil.


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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More questions:

If able to, could someone please translate the following from Alexeev's schematic Verpies posted a few pages back?

"niz resanans" and, "verh resanans"

Thanks,

PW

"niz resanans" means "lower resonance"
"verh resanans" means "higher resonance"

Please note that Alexeev schematic functionally close to Stalker's schematic, just different components used
However Alexeev used different tuning (frequencies etc)
So don't be confused with differences.

Vasik



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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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NickZ,
Aren't we supposed to assume that someone already made this work a "first time"?
Do you have a photo of your replication you could post, or a link to one, that I could take a look at?
Thanks,
PW

PW,

Most people made successful replications don't want to talk about it.
It easy to guess why.

Vasik

 


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Vasik has done a rough translation of author's statements made in that video. All people who do not understand Russian should thank him for that tedious work.

I don't expect thanks or something out of this. Just use the information.
And if there is something unclear, let's edit and update translation together.

Vasik


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Device can be constructed using Tesla coil or Kacher.
What is the most major difference between them (in one sentence) ?
Is it external vs. internal excitation ?
   

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At 23:30 in this video, a series of pulses are being discussed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeEaKI1TZ3s

Does anyone have info on these pulses and the circuit he is using to generate these pulses.  They appear to be generated from a separate circuit not included in the Stalker schematic.

PW


PW,

That circuit is included in the rk_rev3.pdf on page 34, see the documentation thread here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=4154.msg93064#msg93064

Its a MOSFET driven kacher / Tesla coil and called "Tesla coil control board" and it uses an inverted pulse from the pcb we are using now, therefor i added a extra connector on my pcb for future use of this additional circuit.

I did make a video on this circuit showing the pulses created etc. a few years ago for Nick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQn-8hZSGhk


Itsu
   

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I did make a video on this circuit showing the pulses created etc. a few years ago for Nick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQn-8hZSGhk
Yes, that is the same pulse-burst generating circuit that was featured in the video by Stalker at the time index 6:24.
https://youtu.be/Bhc1xFNgrVA?t=384

I think it is important to remind everyone that this is not the method of generating pulse-bursts in your present replication.
   
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