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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 52067 times)

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Check it out. Stick a voltmeter on it.

Used my Fluke DMM on Vdc to check out the voltages on severall points at the MOSFET +24V line.

Below diagram shows with big red dots where i measured 24V compared to the big blue dot.
The big purple dot shows where i measured more (208V), so between the diode (12R06DI) and the drain of the IRFP460 MOSFET.

Itsu
   

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OK, what might be interesting to know now is what direction the current flows into and out of the 47ufd-400v 'lytic!  With the negative side of the CMC shorted, which direction does the current flow on the 24v power supply side of this cap?  Hopefully this measurement is convenient!

Pm

PM,

thanks for the reply, but as i have tightly build up this Kacher MOSFET drive board its hard to measure any current direction as you suggested.

Presently i made some new Voltmeter measurements, see my former post and diagram.
Do you still think your suggested current measurements are useful?


By the way, the 'lytic' i use is a 100uF 400V, and the CMC negative side is presently OPEN, not shorted.

Itsu

   
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Just one thing from your previous scope traces, you have Tesla coil working on both half periods of push pull.
I think you need switch one off, so it will look more like this
https://youtu.be/Z-UaulS9EUA?list=PLK7gxeQv5qT44ZM5TVnBW534ogPJnrXjg&t=80

Vasik


   Vasik:
   I have uploaded this image of Stalker's signal. But, you said that the image was not from Cepren (Stalker). However, it is from Stalker, and it is showing what his kacher circuit scope signal looks like. Yet, we have no idea what his devise's output, can actually do. And, if this is really the right signal that we (Itsu, you, I, and others) should follow. When it comes to self running, that is. That is why I am waiting for someone to verify the self running output, before trying to continue to replicate the controlable Kacher circuit.  As I don't have any electronics parts houses, nearby. Nor do I want to just keep buying more and more parts to just experiment with. As I want to build a self runner, not a useless device, nor to follow useless unverified schematics that don't work. Which has been the case, up to now...

   NickZ
   
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PM,

thanks for the reply, but as i have tightly build up this Kacher MOSFET drive board its hard to measure any current direction as you suggested.

Presently i made some new Voltmeter measurements, see my former post and diagram.
Do you still think your suggested current measurements are useful?


By the way, the 'lytic' i use is a 100uF 400V, and the CMC negative side is presently OPEN, not shorted.

Itsu


   Itsu:  I have a very similar filter system at the input to my Kacher, but I don't have the diodes on it like you do. Perhaps it's the diode, acting like "switching diodes" and jacking up the voltage. Like in Dr. Stiffler's  diode loop devices.
   

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That is why I am waiting for someone to verify the self running output, before trying to continue to replicate the controlable Kacher circuit.

Nick,

That is your decision, your strategy.
I am in this research for 20 years probably now and the event your are waiting for did not happen yet... and I think it is unlikely to ever happen.... and I think it is pretty clear why.

Vasik


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    Vasik. Do you really think the self running devices will "never happen"?  It's only a matter of time, as they already exist.

    That is my decision, after all these years of trying. I have already spent many many hours days, and weeks, and years on all of this.
   And, if it does not happen... I continue paying NOTHING for my current electric bill.  I won't go into that, or why, but I'm just showing that I have nothing to lose by waiting. Nor do I have much time left to "wait", as I am 70 years old. Yet, I am still at it...since I was 18 years old, I started working in the electronics field for a commercial company building and subbing out PCBs. And I will continue to at least research this idea. As I still have a complete device on my bench.  And I know that this and much more is just waiting for us to get up to speed. However, not one of the guys that we know that have built the controlable Kacher circuit, have had any luck with it, at all. And that is what I'm waiting for. 

  My feelings are that once someone has a self runner working, then they try to figure out why or how it's actually working, and then they can try to explain it. Not the other way around. As that has not worked to well for us so far.

   Partzman is right, no one has properly explained and SHOWN,  just how the interceptor Kacher signal is being used to cause the device PP output power to raise. We see no delay causing an additional output, on the scope, etc... Or how this "delay" should provide for any extra power to allow for self running, is still unknown and not shown. Except for a handful of lucky Slavs who have seen the needed effect.
   There was no delay, on the original simple kacher circuit, that three different people have shown self running.

    NickZ

   PS. Verpies, perhaps a month is too soon...
   

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    Vasik. Do you really think the self running devices will "never happen"?  It's only a matter of time, as they already exist.

I didn't say that there are no self-runners. There are probably hundreds successful replications of this device, and many others too. And usually people who get it working not sharing it not because they become "greedy bastards", it because they lose interest in being and spending time in hostile places like this.

I ask myself almost every day, WTF i am doing here, reading and answering complains about "documents too long to read or incomplete" :-/

Keep waiting Nick.

Vasik


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   Vasik.  Thanks, I will. But, like I said, I have nothing to lose. 
   However, what I am waiting for here on this thread, patiently, is for you and Itsu to build the device, and show how well it works. As I have done, already for myself in my own way. If that is not the idea, then I'm in the wrong forum. As open source is what I'm into. Not secrets devices, like Tariel Kapanadze wants to show. I am trying to change that, if possible, by showing everything that I've ever built, in videos, thousands of posts on forums, and on YouTube, even if it doesn't work as planned. So, that other guys won't waste time, going down that route. As there is lots of disinformation, and trolls, everywhere.

   "Hostile places like this"?
   Or, do you mean great forum threads, like this one? Where there is actually some one building something interesting, for a change,
instead of just talk, and more talk.
   I am by no means being hostile to anyone. Except for trolls. Sorry to them, I just can't help it.

   BTW:  Vasil, thanks for taking the time to do your translations. If only one person hits on it, it will have been worth it.
   I am on your side... "|every day", so is Itsu. So no need to question your own efforts.

   NickZ

   
   
   

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   I have uploaded this image of Stalker's signal. But, you said that the image was not from Cepren (Stalker).

Correction: This is snapshot from Sergey Alexeev video. I re-posted it again specially for Utopia Now because his build seems to be closer to Alexeev's device.

Vasik


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PM,

thanks for the reply, but as i have tightly build up this Kacher MOSFET drive board its hard to measure any current direction as you suggested.

Presently i made some new Voltmeter measurements, see my former post and diagram.
Do you still think your suggested current measurements are useful?


By the way, the 'lytic' i use is a 100uF 400V, and the CMC negative side is presently OPEN, not shorted.

Itsu

Itsu,

If your voltage measurements above were taken with the device operating then no, there is no reason to try to make the current measurements.

Pm
   
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Correction: This is snapshot from Sergey Alexeev video. I re-posted it again specially for Utopia Now because his build seems to be closer to Alexeev's device.

Vasik

   
   Vasik:  Can you tell me what is going on, when in the video tittle that you posted, it says, Cepren Stalker.  Is that video not Stalker's video, but a replication made by Sergey of Stalker's work or ideas? In any case what is important is the signal. And how to obtain it. Seams to me that Itsu tried previously, but could not obtain the same results, or signal as in that video. Perhaps that is not the only type of impulse signal that we need?

   NickZ
   
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I don't want to sound negative with what I'm about to say but it is worth pondering. 

If any electrical/electronic device produces more legitimate output than input and if said output is connected back to the input or IOW looped, there will be a major league problem with runaway unless some kind of control means are put into place.  So, if any given device or circuit is claimed to be looped and self running and a schematic is shown, there should be some evidence of control means in the circuit or else more than likely, we are looking at a fraud.  Just food for thought!

Pm
   

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I don't want to sound negative with what I'm about to say but it is worth pondering. 

If any electrical/electronic device produces more legitimate output than input and if said output is connected back to the input or IOW looped, there will be a major league problem with runaway unless some kind of control means are put into place.  So, if any given device or circuit is claimed to be looped and self running and a schematic is shown, there should be some evidence of control means in the circuit or else more than likely, we are looking at a fraud.  Just food for thought!

Pm

Pm,

Not necessary, I think this applies only to devices which are taking energy from their output.
If device taking energy from environment and spent part of it to sustain own operation there could not be
runaway process.

Regards,
Vasik



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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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...there will be a major league problem with runaway unless some kind of control means are put into place.
A device does not have to use deliberate means of power control because some components  introduce inadvertent regulation intrinsically.

For example, anytime a device utilizes cored inductors, their ferromagnetic saturation limits their energy output.
So in the device being discussed in this thread, the core IS the power regulator you're referring to while also being a transformer, and IMO other things that shall not be named.

Except for a handful of lucky Slavs who have seen the needed effect.
Because only Slavs have access to the special cores.

PS. Verpies, perhaps a month is too soon...
You might be right.
   

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   Vasik:  Can you tell me what is going on, when in the video tittle that you posted, it says, Cepren Stalker.  Is that video not Stalker's video, but a replication made by Sergey of Stalker's work or ideas? In any case what is important is the signal. And how to obtain it. Seams to me that Itsu tried previously, but could not obtain the same results, or signal as in that video. Perhaps that is not the only type of impulse signal that we need?

   NickZ


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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I bypassed (shorted) the diode in the drain lead (12R06DI) and now it shows the below drain voltage, see screenshot 1

We now have a steady state of 24V as i would expect see screenshot 2

So it seems that this diode is causing the steady state up-rise.

Itsu
   
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   I'm not exactly living close to Russia, nor any other Slav area, otherwise, I would go there and obtain several of their old Tv yoke cores.
As I have had to do, here.
   However, several people have now shown that the bigger 3 inch torroids, can also work as well. Which would be one of the things that we need to verify. If true.

   NickZ
   
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I bypassed (shorted) the diode in the drain lead (12R06DI) and now it shows the below drain voltage, see screenshot 1

We now have a steady state of 24V as i would expect see screenshot 2

So it seems that this diode is causing the steady state up-rise.

Itsu


   Itsu:  The diode, I thought so...
   

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Nick,

yes it seems to behave opposite as i would expect, not sure why it is there in the first place.

Guess i continue for now without this diode but i have still very little effect on the kacher, minute sparks (0.2mm) from a screwdriver so i am not sure the kacher is oscillation now or just ringing.

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   Itsu:
   Glad to hear that that was the problem, the diode.  It may be there to protect the PS. I don't use it...
   I would suspect the the Fet's gate is still not getting the needed voltage/current to provide for normal operation.
   
   Maybe you can show a scope shot of just the weak Kacher gate signal, now using just the 24v supply input.
   I don't think that it's a good idea to have have to raise the input voltage, to compensate for the weak kacher gate signal.

   NickZ
   
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A device does not have to use deliberate means of power control because some components  introduce inadvertent regulation intrinsically.

For example, anytime a device utilizes cored inductors, their ferromagnetic saturation limits their energy output.
So in the device being discussed in this thread, the core IS the power regulator you're referring to while also being a transformer, and IMO other things that shall not be named.


Yes I agree.  In this case the core saturation could/would be the "control means"!

Pm
   
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Pm,

Not necessary, I think this applies only to devices which are taking energy from their output.
If device taking energy from environment and spent part of it to sustain own operation there could not be
runaway process.

Regards,
Vasik

Vasik,

Oops, I missed your post!  Yes I would agree if one is taking power from the environment in some kind of controlled manner.  I remember my conversation with one Mr. Bill Wampler (who has since passed) regarding his development and manufacture of a FE generator that they supplied free to third world countries.  He said "first one must learn how to collect the energy (from the environment) and then one must learn how to control it". 

He emphasized that the "control" was very difficult to achieve as he described one runaway condition they experienced in which they feared for their lives.

Pm 
   

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Glad to hear that that was the problem, the diode.  It may be there to protect the PS. I don't use it...
The diode is not a problem but it certainly is a piece of the puzzle to the voltage ratcheting mystery. That could be a feature or an accident.

We now have a steady state of 24V as i would expect see screenshot 2
So it seems that this diode is causing the steady state up-rise.

That's what I suspected - see the quote below:

Perhaps the inclusion of the effect of the diodes (incl. MOSFET's body diode) would illustrate the upward ratcheting of the DC levels of steady states, which occur between pulse bursts.

Diodes can aid in maintaining that voltage memory (remembering the DC levels between bursts) but they are not exactly known for "remembering" voltages themselves.  Their junction capacitances are just too low to "remember" the voltage for so long, ...so what is "remembering" it ?
The MOSFET's CDS is getting discharged every time the MOSFET turns on, so is there another capacitance in this device which can "remember" that voltage besides the interwinding capacitance ?
« Last Edit: 2021-07-24, 15:11:43 by verpies »
   

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There is a poll at the top of this page.
So far only 2 members have voted.

Any registered member can vote and it does not cost anything.
   
Newbie
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Posts: 13
I voted Yes,
That feels good.

And thanks everybody for the info on Tuning Inductor with Grenade and other info.
A lot to digest and grasp ... but very helpful, hopeful, interesting and inspiring.

Quote
What winding style you used for it ?
Vasik

I used this winding style.
The numbers can be slightly different. Next time i wind a Grenade i will be more precise in how i wind and in archiving numbers of turns.

Utopia
   
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