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Author Topic: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk!  (Read 977684 times)
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img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #725 on: 2014-07-22, 20:18:08 »
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It's turtles all the way down
From room3327
Quote
Be careful of what you say to me Ion.  You and Dumped and tysb3 and a couple others here destroyed my reputation a couple years ago, I have nothing left to lose.

But I believe now more people have awakened to the horrors of Islam and more will awake everyday, and as time goes on I will be vindicated and you will be the one looking bad.

room3327

If I have directly or indirectly offended you by stating my opinion, then I apologize.

As you said, you may be right, time will tell. There are also many other possible outcomes.

Kind regards

ION
« Last Edit: 2014-07-23, 10:15:31 by ION »


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Matt Watts
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #726 on: 2014-07-24, 05:19:58 »
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2014-07-24, 04:47:37
My question to you or anybody is:   How is my opinion going to help you be a beter person?

I try to be a decent person.  I think before I act and I try to put myself in someone else's shoes and think how my behavior will be received by others.  I'm a bit of loner but I can get along with most anyone as long as they don't have preconceived opinions of me and treat me decency and respect.

What I really dislike most about 9/11, is how so many things were done in my name as an American, that I had no say in, yet I have to accept the repercussions (blow-back as Ron Paul calls it) of those decisions.  I'm a human first and an American second.  It's not right I'm no longer on equal footing with people from other countries because of what my government decided to do.  I'm told they hate me for my freedoms.  Hogwash!  My freedoms potentially could have improved their lives, they way they want them improved, many levels over.  But I'll never get that chance now.

How can discussing this make us better people?

For starters we need to come together as a people inhabiting this little round rock floating through space.  If governments and nations aren't helping us, we need to change things so that it does, or eliminate it.  We can still have groups where common culture and beliefs settle together.  What we really need is more truth and less boundaries.  Here's a quote to think over:

"There are seven things that will destroy us: Wealth without work; Pleasure without conscience; Knowledge without character; Religion without sacrifice; Politics without principle; Science without humanity; Business without ethics."
  ~ Mahatma Gandhi
   
img  Room3327
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #727 on: 2014-07-24, 05:35:30 »

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On page 8 of this thread MileHigh gives a very good explanation for wwtc 7 coming down.

This entire thread is a very good read and a real eyeopener.


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"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

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Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #728 on: 2014-07-24, 13:55:04 »

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Below is some pic's of flight 93,and the a couple of the latest disasyer -flight 17.
Flight 93 came down in one piece when it hit the ground,and light 17 was hit by a surface to air missle,befor falling 10 000 meters to the ground.
Anyone see the difference here?.A plane that hit's the ground in one piece,but no sign of any engine's or any other part that looked like a plane of that size(they were found burried later when the area was blocked from the public.
And yet a plane that was blown apart from a missle,and plumeted to earth in pieces from 10 000 meters above,shows clearly engine's and large pieces of debris that can clearly be seen as plane parts.


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img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #729 on: 2014-07-24, 16:34:40 »
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It's turtles all the way down
The photo's tell a lot, Tinman, but people will only see what they choose and then put their blinders back on, alternately they engage in rather flimsy and uninformed arguments to explain away solid physical evidence.

Here's a picture of Osama Bin laden from the late 60's or early 70's wearing bell bottoms second from the right.  Notice also, all the women are forced to wear burka's.  ;)

I recently watched the British Pathe series of Iraq in the early 50's that showed many freely adopting western culture and dress without a problem.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/ageless-iraq-reel-1

There is always the strict crackpot religious fundamentalists that make life difficult for everyone in every country, in the US we have the religious right.

Western propagandists would have you believe all women in  the east are forced to wear burka's and we must free them.

Of course, the US has no interest in the forced genital mutilation of women in Africa since we also engaged in the practice as recently as the early 1900's. We are more concerned with womens fashion in other countries.

It is important to have perspective.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #730 on: 2014-07-24, 17:50:06 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Regarding page 8 "eyeopener"

Yes the eyeopener is that MH has never done any work with steel, he admits. He doesn't know by firsthand experience what it takes to melt it, has never tried different fuels to attempt it., yet has now become an expert with his "limp spaghetti model".

I grew up in a small steel town. I've done all these things I mentioned due to an early fascination with the process of melting steel, did many experiments on my own, and worked in a steel mill before I was 22, so was around the steel melting daily,  probably before he was born, firsthand experience !

This steel mill had basic oxygen furnace (BOF) , open hearth, and blast furnaces. One might never imagine what it takes to melt steel until one has seen one of these fired up close and firsthand, it is both impressive and frightening. It cannot be done with kerosene and requires very high grade solid fuels like "coke". Low heat fuels would be used only for warmup.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Peterae
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #731 on: 2014-07-24, 18:01:48 »

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Also there have been other buildings burning for sometimes weeks before the fires are put out and they have been restored to full functional use afterwards without the steel being replaced, so what made the twin towers steel different.

If you go to google images of high rise fires and yet no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=high+rise+building+fires&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=RTvRU-m1LdLy7AaYzoDoDA&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=625&dpr=0.8
   
img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #732 on: 2014-07-24, 18:10:38 »
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Quote from: Peterae on 2014-07-24, 18:01:48
Also there have been other buildings burning for sometimes weeks before the fires are put out and they have been restored to full functional use afterwards without the steel being replaced, so what made the twin towers steel different.

If you go to google images of high rise fires and yet no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=high+rise+building+fires&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=RTvRU-m1LdLy7AaYzoDoDA&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1280&bih=625&dpr=0.8

The steel was different because it was made out of pasta, per MH's expose'.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #733 on: 2014-07-24, 18:14:30 »
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http://www.ae911truth.org/  

has done a great service to mankind IMHO by presenting the facts and encouraging pursuit of justice/real investigation.

Now over 2200 engineers and architects; and over 19000 other supporters.

 Have you joined or signed support?  (I have, long ago)
   
img  Chet K
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #734 on: 2014-07-24, 19:03:48 »
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Peter
quote
If you go to google images of high rise fires and yet no fire, however severe, has ever caused a steel-framed high-rise building to collapse

-----------------------

I am not sure about that comment , I spent many years testing structures in NYC for integrity and helped to design structural remediation for older buildings in need of reinforcement [ seismic building codes Via Japanese earthquake technologies]

I also spent a decade in highrise demolition in NYC [mostly due to my hands on work with structure]

If a beam has been Corrupted do to fire,  shoring will be installed and remediation protocol will be put in place [it gets fixed]

I personally tested the towers on a regular basis [steel and concrete] over a period of 20 years  ,every time a floor was rented they would need test data for all connections and make sure that the Data was in line with the actual existing structures condition.
so I tested....[field verification]

My phone rang and I was asked to come down to the towers the first time it was bombed in 1993
{that phone call had more to do with a magnesium Lance I was showing the port authority at Laguardia airports main runway,
a failing expansion joint remediation ,the Cheif Engineer for the Port Authority thought the Lance might help clear some debris with out to much vibration

they were absolutely terrified that the building might come down......[in 1993]

and getting to the point ...they had good reason to be scared it was built like a 100 story shopping mall with lightweight bar joist construction and lightweight concrete floor deck bridged between a perimeter wall[srtucture] and interior elevator core/foundation.

no interior columns anywhere   1 acre free wide open space on every floor

once one floor melted ,"Melted do to no fire sprinklers and no fire coating left on the bar joist [blown off at impact of the plane] and failed [pulled the connections out at the Bar joist ends]

Gravity and inertia took over...

I Must add I was in Building seven and tested there too ...
that thing was built like a structural steel exhibit  ....unbelievably strong.

something very very odd there...

thx
Chet
   
img  Grumage
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #735 on: 2014-07-24, 19:28:59 »

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" I Must add I was in Building seven and tested there too ...
that thing was built like a structural steel exhibit  ....unbelievably strong.

something very very odd there...

thx
Chet "

Yes indeed, very odd !!  The BBC announced it's suicide 20 min's before it jumped !!   ;)

I watched the video a number of times, classic demolition, full implosion from the centre out. Collapsed onto its own footprint. Minimal peripheral damage.   ;)

I can only feel a great sadness.

Cheers Grum.


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
img  evolvingape
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #736 on: 2014-07-24, 21:00:24 »

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Everyman decries immorality
Explosions: How We Shook the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01pjt_K-94M

 C.C


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Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #737 on: 2014-07-24, 21:51:06 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Actually the interior of the WTC was not one acre of wide open space. The interior core took up a large part of the footprint of each floors acre. It was an extremely rigid core structure. see here:

http://algoxy.com/conc/core.html

Anyone who has studied the blueprints of the WTC or watched the available films of their construction will note the size of the box beams and girders used in the core and the outer walls. They were enormous.

Quote:

   
Quote
The detailed architectural drawings make clear what official reports have apparently attempted to hide: that the Twin Towers had massive core columns, and those columns ran most of the height of each Tower before transitioning to columns with smaller cross-sections.

    Both of the government-sponsored engineering studies of the Twin Towers' "collapses" -- FEMA's and NIST's -- are highly misleading about the core structures. Neither Report discloses dimensions for core columns -- dimensions that are clearly evident in the architectural drawings. Both Reports use a variety of techniques seemingly designed to minimize the strength of the cores or to conceal their structural role entirely.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Peterae
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #738 on: 2014-07-24, 22:11:38 »

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Buy me some coffee
and there is also evidence that ACARS tracked the planes after the towers impact  ???
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ACARS-CONFIRMED-911-AIRCRAFT-AIRBORNE-LONG-AFTER-CRASH.html
   
img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #739 on: 2014-07-24, 22:59:39 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: Peterae on 2014-07-24, 22:11:38
and there is also evidence that ACARS tracked the planes after the towers impact  ???
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/ACARS-CONFIRMED-911-AIRCRAFT-AIRBORNE-LONG-AFTER-CRASH.html

The 911 rabbit hole is very deep indeed, lots of new info keeps emerging. It is difficult to keep up.

I'd stick my head in the sand to avoid it all but it would crinkle my tinfoil hat.  ;)


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #740 on: 2014-07-25, 02:28:56 »
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It's turtles all the way down
This video shows the construction far better

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HvobAp3iD8


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Chet K
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #741 on: 2014-07-25, 02:43:57 »
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ION
At  3, 12 in that video you will see the connection I refer to ,the top cord of the shopping mall bar joist that bridged the perimeter structure to the Core.
 
on top of that Bar joist was light weight concrete,  there was No active fire protection in the building[sprinklers].

I have not followed any of the theories ,nor why they would let it burn for an hour or so after the "strikes" if they were only going to bring it down with charges...?

for the record I was never allowed to test that  perimeter wall [forbidden to be touched/ holes drilled etc ]

This topic still gives me the heebee jeebies.... :o
thx
Chet
   
img  muDped
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #742 on: 2014-07-25, 03:09:28 »

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Quote from: Chet K
they were absolutely terrified that the building might come down......[in 1993]

We must not forget that the 1993 "attack" was an FBI nurtured and
managed event.  It was a set-up.

This is where the seeds of possibility were planted.  This was no doubt
reported in the various media of the time as well in order to add
legitimacy to the possibility that a collapse was feared.

Are these kinds of "false flag" disasters planned that far ahead?  Yes.


Quote from: Chet K
I have not followed any of the theories ,nor why they would let it burn for an hour or so after the "strikes" if they were only going to bring it down with charges...?

Who would be the "they" in your questions?  Why would "they" do it
in the fashion that "they" did?  To maximize the emotional impact in
the minds of all who saw the tragedy; and to further increase the odds
of the multitudes believing the lies which followed.

As the Truth continues to march forward and gain momentum more
and more are slowly acknowledging how they'd been deceived.

Israel has already stated that they had agents in place in New York
City to "document the event" and that they are grateful for how
they've benefited from the event.  In their eyes they've committed
the perfect crime.

Will they in due time be held accountable?  Yes.

The same folks who did 9-11 are now doing this.
 
« Last Edit: 2014-07-25, 03:57:36 by Dumped »


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Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #743 on: 2014-07-25, 19:05:56 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Chet:

I could expect the bar joists to break loose from their moorings to the outside huge box columns and to the connection points to inner core columns if there were to be a "pancake style" collapse.

I cannot imagine the outer core and inner core being reduced to rubble by a pancake collapse. My imagination may be limited, but my common sense (Like Columbo) smells something rotten in NY.

The required energy to turn all that concrete into a fine powder pyroclastic flow covering a very large area exceeds by a big margin what is available with a pancake style collapse.

As an experiment, one could weld and bolt together a scale model using square steel box tubing, cement all the floors in and fire a beercan filled with kerosene into the structure at the required speed. What do you think will happen?

(I understand it is incorrect to exactly scale down materials like this, as elasticity and load bearing ability changes with size, but just try to imagine it anyway)

I have tried with all the fuel power I can muster to melt down my cast iron wood stove or my barbecue grill it's impossible, and they are low grade materials. I cannot even melt or sag the unsupported flue pipe which is only 1/32 of an inch thick, though I can get it to glow cherry red. It takes a white hot fire to begin to melt steel. Red hot, and you can hammer it into shapes, but it takes a lot of effort.

In the towers we see a cold, oxygen starved, fuel starved fire, and people waving for help in the openings where the plane entered just a short time earlier.

common sense.

« Last Edit: 2014-07-25, 21:28:57 by ION »


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img  TinMan
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #744 on: 2014-07-26, 11:31:34 »

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Probably already been discused here,but what of the incorrect engine at ground zero ,that they tried to pass of as one of the 767's engines that hit the south tower(pictured below)
This engine is actually from a 737(modle CFM56) ,not a 767.


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img  evolvingape
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #745 on: 2014-08-03, 13:00:52 »

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Quote from: EMdevices on 2014-07-24, 04:47:37
So building 7 collapsed for almost the same reason the twins collapsed, but it took longer since it did not suffer the same initial structural damage.  Load bearing characteristics of almost any material will change when temperature rises.  Once again, basic metallurgy.  

Can you please explain why your 'basic metallurgy' collapse theory only applied to buildings WTC 1, 2 and 7 on September 11 2001, and not to any other known buildings throughout recorded history ?

http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/891-watch-these-raging-infernos-in-steel-framed-structures-around-the-globe.html

A 3 minute video of raging inferno's in tall buildings.. not a single one experienced symmetric failure of all load bearing members at the same moment, none of them collapsed at freefall speed. Why ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NrASZxGu_o

Why does your theory of 'basic metallurgy' fail in the many above examples ??


---------------------------
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Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  Grumage
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #746 on: 2014-08-03, 14:48:47 »

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Dear All.

My wife and I have just watched this. Some interesting points raised !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zbv2SvBEec&sns=em

From my own experience working in the Foundry business I too found the fact that molten Steel could be created by simply mixing Kerosene and air was too good to be true !!  I wish I had had that sort of technology back then !!  :)

Cheers Grum.


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   
img  giantkiller
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #747 on: 2014-08-03, 23:27:53 »

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Can anyone explain the steel girder that is many stories tall just dissipating into dust?
This is the game changer signal or the white elephant in the room.

And I might add nullifies any scientific explain of the other events to this point.
Unless someone can explain the girder dissipation then all other words spoken are for naught.

Yes, I stood in front of the TV that morning in tears and horror, until I started asking questions. I knew it had to be something greater than the public knew. When I saw Dr Judy Wood's explanation I kicked myself in the ass, real hard. Because I knew Tesla has stated 'With the correct frequency I could split the planet.'

One big friggin' DUH. And if you can not comprehend that, what the hell are ya doing studying free energy.
« Last Edit: 2014-08-04, 03:42:59 by giantkiller »


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http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  PhysicsProf
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #748 on: 2014-08-04, 14:54:33 »
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Quote from: giantkiller on 2014-08-03, 23:27:53
Can anyone explain the steel girder that is many stories tall just dissipating into dust?



Indeed - this is corrected in FAQ#3 by AE911Truth.org -

Quote
Wood asserts that the steel "turned to dust." One of the key observations that she uses to support this conclusion is the dust that appeared when a portion of the North Tower's core finally came down about 12 seconds into the destruction of the North Tower, several seconds after the floors that used to surround that core structure had been pulverized or had fallen to the ground. Upon studying the video of the "spire," however, we find that the steel did not "turn to dust" (see for example the next to last segment in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W0-W582fNQ). The spire clearly simply fell after being "shaken" – most likely by explosive charges, leaving behind, in mid-air, the pulverized concrete that had been resting on, or statically stuck to, the steel. As is well known, air resistance causes dust to fall slower than structural steel (note the final remaining column falling faster than the dust in the third photograph of the sequence).

http://www.ae911truth.org/news-section/41-articles/505-ae911truth-faq-6-whats-your-assessment-of-the-directed-energy-weapon-dew-hypothesis.html

Note also that last week, AE911Truth's Richard Gage appeared for 40 minutes on C-SPAN, answering questions!
   
img  ion
Re: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk! « Reply #749 on: 2014-08-04, 17:09:51 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote
From my own experience working in the Foundry business I too found the fact that molten Steel could be created by simply mixing Kerosene and air was too good to be true !!  I wish I had had that sort of technology back then !!  Smiley

Cheers Grum.

Could you expand on how this might be done or were you speaking tongue in cheek? How would a newcomer to this thread interpret your statement? From my experience it cannot be done with Kero /air mixture. Maybe Kero / pure oxygen?, don't know, I'm not a chemist or metallurgist, just a guy with common sense and some firsthand experience.


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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