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Author Topic: Some "New" Observations  (Read 222383 times)
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Attached is a simpler version of the fluorescent tube drive for use in the Thonemann patent. (see prior post for earlier version)

The good news is I found that a small inductor in the Anode circuit and a switch dispenses with the need for a filament supply. So this is the cold cathode version. Works much like those push to start lamps except requires a much briefer push, so attached is the simplified schematic.

The bad news is I spent some time trying to operate the Thonemann patent "in reverse" i.e. where a current in the tube is supposed to excite the transmission line into resonance.

I found no such happening and am beginning to doubt the patents veracity in it's present form. I ran currents from 3mA to 50mA with nothing happening (no sign of resonance) in the line.

There is one other test I will run when I fire up the RF amplifier and pump high power into the TLine.

So no  success on this project thus far.

Regards


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OK did not know where to post this, but I think this is about right.

Have not had much time lately as have been very busy with one thing or the other, but have been watching the forum which has been showing some interesting things, well I think this is interesting in my pdf below.

I think this is as close as I have seen to SM's  TPU, the basic design is quite solid and works to a level which can be built on, even the possibility of not connecting L3 to  L2/C1  (PM thread!) and not tried.

Well enjoy, you will have to play with the frequency, between 3khz and 15khz should find the right spot (5-6khz was SM)

Regards

Mike 8)


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Mike

Very interesting circuits, especially the second schematic. I think this is definitely worth building and I have a nice large ferrite for the job that I already put the foils on.

You've got some interesting ideas in these designs.

Thanks much for sharing this good stuff.  O0

Regards
« Last Edit: 2017-05-11, 22:03:09 by ION »


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Mike

Very interesting circuits, especially the second schematic. I think this is definitely worth building and I have a nice large ferrite for the job that I already put the foils on.

You've got some interesting ideas in these designs.

Thanks much for sharing this good stuff.  O0

Regards

Thanks ION

Not much time ATM and I have seen just lately a lot being talked about which comes into play with the STEAP way of working. Even the PM thread with a possible OU or not could come into play if one of the coils is open ended  (not tested and may not work at such low frequency).

well I leave it with you, I may get it out again if time permits

Regards

Mike 8)

Just seen the EF problem with Chet, who is Allen Burgess?? has he other handles? don't know what he posted as Chet removed it, is he on this forum under another name?


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Mike
No he is not, he has been moderated at Stefan's for similar behavior
and now he makes a mess over there.

I am actually trying to understand what he is doing there?

will get it sorted soon

thanks for sharing your work.


   
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Hi Mike

Your device deserves it's own thread possibly in the SM section or on your bench for focused discussion, either way ok lest it get buried here. This thread has gotten a bit cluttered mostly my fault by allowing the Thonemann patent intruding here. I would hate to see your good work get buried.

Regards


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I decided to post this info here as it is a "new" observation to me :).

These tests were run on my previously assembled 7" TPU using a 3 turn collector L2 made with 80-15x34 litz wires for a total of 1200 34 ga copper wires in the bundle.  I was/am looking for any NMR activity with this collector and any opinions on the test results below are most certainly welcome.

The dc bias for the collector comes from the earth's magnetic field which I believe to be in a vertical orientation at my location.  A so called "control" coil L1 with 296 turns is wound completely over the collector and used for both the pulsed drive flux as well as for capturing any relaxation pulse when the spins realign.  IMO opinion, this is not the best arrangement for the relaxation recovery but it seems to work.  A zip cord winding L3 is wound over this assembly but not used.

The L1 coil is also a transmission line with a delay that is dependent on whether L2 is grounded or not.  Grounding L2 increases the effective capacitance of the L1 Tline which increases the Tdelay.

A schematic of the test is attached and shows the orientation of the bias and control coil fluxes.  A 7 Mhz single sine pulse shifted 250 degrees and offset from ground is used to provide a smooth positive only going pulse to drive the control coil.

In the scope shots, CH1(yel) is the input pulse, CH4(grn) is the input current, and CHM(red) is the FFT of the CH1 waveform.

PCC1 displays the pulsed waveforms with the FFT cursor A dipped at ~6.1Mhz.  During this test no other connections are made to L2 or L3.

PCC2 shows the time between the current peaks to be ~165ns (6.06Mhz) which is the Tline delay of L1 in this test.

PCC3 now displays the waveforms with one end of L2 grounded thus increasing the the capacitance from L1 to ground.  The FFT now shows two dips at ~3.3Mhz and ~6.1Mhz.

PCC4 shows the time interval between the 1st and 2nd current peaks to be ~165ns (6.06Mhz and PCC5 indicates the interval between the 1st and 3rd current peaks to be ~312ns (3.2Mhz). 

My interpretation of these tests is that the spin relaxation pulse occurs at ~165ns after the applied flux to L1.  In the first PCC1,2 test, the natural Tline delay of L1 with the parasitic circuit capacitance is nearly if not exactly equal to the relaxation delay.

In the second PCC3,4,5 test, the increased capacitance of Tline L1 with the grounding of L2 results in an increased delay of ~312ns but the apparent relaxation delay of ~165ns remains unaffected.

Thots?

Pm       
   

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My voltage return pulse is at 500ns. Voltage leads the current by 90 degrees and vice versa in a capacitive circuit.
I mention this because I posted voltage response and you have a posted a capacitive response. So your voltage artifact should appear at 220ns.
This points out the variance of the build for any given configuration(stating the obvious here).
Put a low resistor to ground next time to slow things down. Just curious.

But my suspicions are that the Earth field is not sufficient to produce any controlling artifact on the L3 outer winding and that the pulsing of the inner run causes a resistive impact.
Your key note states that all inductive measurements are taken with large current input. This can override any artifact. There might be other hidden parameters to your windings that effect the process. By using Litz we can lower the current requirements. By using FE wire we can control the absorbtive media. By using square wave we can have a greater impact on the collective parameters of the build.

In the latest build I performed found 12 volts across the media creates huge voltages. As you use sine waves you can create a natural resonance that doesnt coincide with the effects of using a switch. The media is dependant on the sine wave whereas with a square wave 'We' get out of the way to see the Earth interact with the media. This latency is what we are experiencing on our current builds.

Let me correct my use of the 'Earth' here. We are talking about the independent atomic structure of the media we are using.


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GK,

Thanks for your response.  I do have some comments below-

My voltage return pulse is at 500ns. Voltage leads the current by 90 degrees and vice versa in a capacitive circuit.
I mention this because I posted voltage response and you have a posted a capacitive response. So your voltage artifact should appear at 220ns.
This points out the variance of the build for any given configuration(stating the obvious here).
Put a low resistor to ground next time to slow things down. Just curious.

I'm not quite understanding you here.  I think the tests show a reflected current pulse in L1 (a shorted transmission line) and the corresponding voltage changes to the 50 ohm input impedance of the generator plus, a possible FID or free induction decay from the copper collector but I could be completely off base here!

Quote
But my suspicions are that the Earth field is not sufficient to produce any controlling artifact on the L3 outer winding and that the pulsing of the inner run causes a resistive impact.

I need to measure the ambient earth flux field in my area and correct the NMR resonant frequency for a reality check.  L3 was not used in these tests.  What I'm looking for are any low level events or artifacts that might support a positive energy feedback with gain.

Quote
Your key note states that all inductive measurements are taken with large current input. This can override any artifact. There might be other hidden parameters to your windings that effect the process. By using Litz we can lower the current requirements. By using FE wire we can control the absorbtive media. By using square wave we can have a greater impact on the collective parameters of the build.

Yes I agree.  The large signal measurements were only used to profile the inductive assembly and were not applied during the testing.

Quote
In the latest build I performed found 12 volts across the media creates huge voltages. As you use sine waves you can create a natural resonance that doesnt coincide with the effects of using a switch. The media is dependant on the sine wave whereas with a square wave 'We' get out of the way to see the Earth interact with the media. This latency is what we are experiencing on our current builds.

Let me correct my use of the 'Earth' here. We are talking about the independent atomic structure of the media we are using.

OK, I understand.  Yes, I chose to use a sine wave source to eliminate any effects from all the harmonics a square wave would produce as I am primarily looking for evidence of spin decay.  I have used a square wave source as it is an easy way to increase the signal amplitude. 

I have replicated your tests using a straight length of iron wire with various litz windings.  When pulsed from a low voltage supply, I too see a rather high voltage from the field collapse and the delayed hump.  Is this from the spin decay of the iron or ....?  I need to post my results on that thread to see what you think.

Regards,
Pm     
   
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After more consideration, my tests in post #481 do not indicate any spin decay at ~6Mhz as I'd previously thought.  With the earth's field bias of ~1e-4T, the FID frequency would be magnitudes lower and I see no evidence of that so, the ~6Mhz frequency is most likely the self resonance of L1.

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After more consideration, my tests in post #481 do not indicate any spin decay at ~6Mhz as I'd previously thought.  With the earth's field bias of ~1e-4T, the FID frequency would be magnitudes lower and I see no evidence of that so, the ~6Mhz frequency is most likely the self resonance of L1.

Pm

After more testing of the assembly in post #481 using a Rigol spectrum analyzer with higher resolution at the lower frequencies, the attached trace plot does show a small peak at 2.966kHz after averaging.  This was created with the generator source running continuous at an arbitrary 7.6MHz and sampling the current in L1.  This is more in line with what could be expected with the gyromagnetic ratio for copper at the low bias flux level of the earth's magnetic field IMO.  If this is true and the TPU does operate via an NMR means, then hows does one utilize this relatively low energy level to create the high output?

I plan to do testing with high frequency pulses applied with a repetition rate at or near ~3kHz and monitor the effects.

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Quote
If this is true and the TPU does operate via an NMR means, then hows does one utilize this relatively low energy level to create the high output?
I have always felt that the TPU is nothing more than an iron based Michel Meyer device, there was a rumour in the early days that SM travelled to Europe to speak with the inventor of the original tec the TPU was based on, although i cannot remember the source of this rumour and is just that, Meyer was in France, we already have proven Iron is special with regards to NMR it is the only element we know of that has a stable NMR frequency at different intensities of magnetic field, this alone makes the Meyer device possible because of the AC method of power extraction.

It is also the only method with which we know the energy is huge and exists without violating any principles, we know that if uncontrolled power is fed back into the Meyer device it could suffer critical meltdown, we know that if the iron gets too hot when running that there will be a point where the NMR frequency will change, we know we have to precisely tune to the magic frequency for conversion and this is the hard bit as it needs to be exact, too many things similar to what we know about the TPU, we know that if we run above the curie point that the skin depth is cancelled and therefore allows all of the iron to participate.
   

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I'm talking about the Meyer/Mace device, we know he had problems patenting his work and resorted to Czech to patent his later device.

I started a thread but gave up as my RF knowledge just was not up to scratch to get to a stage that the effect could be verified.

Thread is here.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3107.msg49672#msg49672
   
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I'm talking about the Meyer/Mace device, we know he had problems patenting his work and resorted to Czech to patent his later device.

I started a thread but gave up as my RF knowledge just was not up to scratch to get to a stage that the effect could be verified.

Thread is here.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3107.msg49672#msg49672

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the heads up as I had followed that thread before but re-read it again for a refresher.  I'm not sure if I will continue in this direction as there has been so much effort by so many with seemingly null results :-\

Pm 
   

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That is fair enough partzman, there is a lot of noise in that thread i am sorry for the time it must have taken to read it again, i believe the device does not need to be high power as stated in that thread, his first device was low power using a xtal oscillator, i am pretty positive it is the way to go though from my bifilar pulsing experiments that showed an 80Watt anomalous pulse using iron wire as the core in which i used 2 white noise sources to try and stumble on the frequency which it did randomly, this is what lead me to the Meyer device.
   
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Might be interesting reading for those who interested in TPU replication

I am bumping this thread because after reading some of the concepts of Vasik's paper concerning the work of Michael (Mimo) I think it would benefit from some discussion. I am in the process of giving the paper a careful read, picking out some points of interest. Discussion welcome.

paper here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.msg61310#msg61310

I am particularly interested in the point that there does not seem to be any electrical connection to the "collector" and that at least one end of the collector needs to be ground and polished flat.

Also the idea that the toroid cores produce a magnetic beam that exits the cores and enhances the effect in the collector.

To Vasik: apologies for not paying more attention to the paper, at the time many of us were focused on the Thoneman patent.
              Has anyone translated the .asm files to English?

Maybe this investigation deserves it's own thread?

P.S. Happy Birthday to Mike  :), who might take interest in  the hand drawn schematic, as it resembles some of his work!
« Last Edit: 2019-01-11, 18:05:31 by ion »


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To Vasik: apologies for not paying more attention to the paper, at the time many of us were focused on the Thoneman patent.
              Has anyone translated the .asm files to English?

Hi ION,

Please do not worry. No need to apologize. I shared tons of information and it mostly ignored. Probably it just waiting for a better time and person who really interested in the subject.
I will translate comments in .asm files soon.

Regards,
-V.

Edit: I have attached archive with .asm files with translated comments to original message.
« Last Edit: 2019-01-11, 20:15:24 by Vasik041 »


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Hi ION,

Please do not worry. No need to apologize. I shared tons of information and it mostly ignored. Probably it just waiting for a better time and person who really interested in the subject.
I will translate comments in .asm files soon.

Regards,
-V.

Edit: I have attached archive with .asm files with translated comments to original message.

Dear Vasik

Thank you for translating the .asm files...makes them much easier to decipher. Regarding all the good stuff you post, I always download and try to read it all, but don't always comment right away.

Now for a few questions:

I don't see any electrical connections to the "collector". Specific instruction are to file the ends flat, but no mention of connections. Do you have any idea where the power was to be taken, as the implication is that the "phonons" are racing around the collector and being accelerated by the drive windings. He seems to imply that the collector is merely the catalyst that creates the ultrasonic shock wave.

Also several people seem to have submitted pictures of their builds. Have you had any contact with the other individuals or any further info on the device and how Michael came to his conclusions of how it might work?

Regards


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Now for a few questions:

I don't see any electrical connections to the "collector". Specific instruction are to file the ends flat, but no mention of connections. Do you have any idea where the power was to be taken, as the implication is that the "phonons" are racing around the collector and being accelerated by the drive windings. He seems to imply that the collector is merely the catalyst that creates the ultrasonic shock wave.

Also several people seem to have submitted pictures of their builds. Have you had any contact with the other individuals or any further info on the device and how Michael came to his conclusions of how it might work?
There are two flat collector coils and load connected to their outer ends, inner ends left not connected (please see attached drawing).

I would say this were a typical FE affair. Michael was doing research for many years. He was showing what he got on forum. Then one day he got some interesting results. As usual there were skeptical people and some paid trolls. They attacked Michael. He removed all original posts.
Then after some time he reconsider his decision and opened new topic and started  describing how to replicate what he did step by step.
So this is contents of pdf I shared (with junk posts removed).  There were great interest, many people started building device. Again there were very strong opposition, even stronger than first time. Many people said that he should not make device public etc etc. Personal attacks and so on. For one Michael's post there were tens or hundreds junk posts. After some time Michael gave up.



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I am bumping this thread because after reading some of the concepts of Vasik's paper concerning the work of Michael (Mimo) I think it would benefit from some discussion. I am in the process of giving the paper a careful read, picking out some points of interest. Discussion welcome.

paper here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=302.msg61310#msg61310

I am particularly interested in the point that there does not seem to be any electrical connection to the "collector" and that at least one end of the collector needs to be ground and polished flat.

Also the idea that the toroid cores produce a magnetic beam that exits the cores and enhances the effect in the collector.

To Vasik: apologies for not paying more attention to the paper, at the time many of us were focused on the Thoneman patent.
              Has anyone translated the .asm files to English?

Maybe this investigation deserves it's own thread?

P.S. Happy Birthday to Mike  :), who might take interest in  the hand drawn schematic, as it resembles some of his work!

Thanks Ion

Yes there are some similarities.

I have been looking at the spectrum of the products of the base, 3rd and 9th harmonics of the 3 frequency drive, and wow is the only word. No power to the mosfets atm, just what are the reactions when they come together (or nearly together).

It is quite something to watch, there is a continual movement of frequencies until they get close and build to a spike, then die away again. Is this the kick? this happens right up into the MHz, my SA goes up to 60MHz.

Ion, can you do skype or a another video link? I would like to show you live.

Regards

Mike 8)


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I was just browsing through this thread last night,and woke up this morning with an odd idea.
Probably no good to anyone in regards to how the TPU work's,but i went ahead and built it anyway--just to see what would happen.

So the idea is to take a length of thick copper wire(in this case the core wire is 1mm),and wrap that length of wire with a smaller gauge wire(in this case .55mm)

As there is over 1000 turns to make,i decided to throw together a quick motor driven winder--first pic.
It has a motor at one end,and a bearing head at the other,which allows the core wire to rotate with the motor.

Last pic shows the winding in progress--it worked better than i had hoped  O0


Second pic-I then took this wrapped combination,and wrapped it around a toroid core.
The core is one i made myself using DEVCON liquid metal.

The .55mm wire(the wire wrapped around the 1mm core wire)has a 1 ohm CSR on the ground side(ch2 blue chanel). CH1 is across the CSR and .55mm coil.
The inner core wire has a 1 ohm CSR across it,and CH3 is showing the signal across the core winding.

I was not expecting anything to happen,but was surprised at the results.

1st scope shot shows all 3 traces,where the(what we will call)secondary (CH3) shows the RMS value across the 1 ohm load resistor,and the calculated P/in. The P/in value is on the high side,as the voltage trace (CH1) also includes the voltage across the 1 ohm CSR.

The second scope shot shows P/in when the 1 ohm load resistor is removed from the core winding.
Oddly enough,the P/in go's down very little when the load is removed.

Best results are had around 532KHz,which is what the scope shot tests are run at. But the effect starts as low as 50KHz.

Perhaps the poynting vector field plays a part in this?

This was just a quick throw together DUT.
As you can tell,the winding around the toroid is not very neat(it was getting close to 45*C in the work shop at the time),and the toroid core it self is of poor quality.
I also think a longer core wire with more turns of the smaller outer wire around it,and more turns of the combination wires around a good ferrite toroid would result in a far greater efficiency.

I believe this system could produce much better results if more time was taken with it.

I was looking for a way to accelerate the electrons,and this idea just popped up.
Probably not doing as intended,but i am surprised at how efficient the transfer of electrical energy is from primary to secondary in this winding configuration.

It may be of some use,it may not,but this is what i got from the quick build and test.


Brad


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Ah ah ah ah Brad, great minds think alike! :) I had the same idea 3 or 4 years ago when I tried to experiment in NMR: I wrapped a thin wire around a large copper conductor to produce a very uniform magnetic field all along (see photo).
This didn't work, but now that I'm better equipped with modern generator and scope, maybe I should start testing again.

Since then, I have found an interesting paper at the IEEE: "Vector Potential Coil and Transformer" (pdf). See attached image.
There the central wire is only used to return the current of the thin wire, which cancels the magnetic field in the center of the cylinder supporting the large winding. The solenoid wound around the cylinder plays for the vector potential the same role that an ordinary coil plays for the magnetic field:
we have a linear "A" along the axis of the cylinder and by placing a co-linear conductor, we can measure a voltage at its terminals.
By shielding the measuring conductor with a metal thicker than the skin effect, the author further shows that "A" is indeed unmaskable.

But there is a big flaw in their reasoning: there is always a helical magnetic field around the cylinder, created by the thin wire around the thicker.
The measuring loop passing through the inside of the cylinder, its surface cuts the flux of the helical magnetic field at each turn of the solenoid around the large cylinder. We have a measurement loop whose surface cuts a variable flux, hence the measured EMF, so everything can also be explained in a conventional way with the magnetic field instead of the vector potential.

However, we see that this topology allows new ways of manipulating fields and electrons, so I think you have an interesting subject to pursue.


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Ah ah ah ah Brad, great minds think alike! :) I had the same idea 3 or 4 years ago when I tried to experiment in NMR: I wrapped a thin wire around a large copper conductor to produce a very uniform magnetic field all along (see photo).
This didn't work, but now that I'm better equipped with modern generator and scope, maybe I should start testing again.

Since then, I have found an interesting paper at the IEEE: "Vector Potential Coil and Transformer" (pdf). See attached image.
There the central wire is only used to return the current of the thin wire, which cancels the magnetic field in the center of the cylinder supporting the large winding. The solenoid wound around the cylinder plays for the vector potential the same role that an ordinary coil plays for the magnetic field:
we have a linear "A" along the axis of the cylinder and by placing a co-linear conductor, we can measure a voltage at its terminals.
By shielding the measuring conductor with a metal thicker than the skin effect, the author further shows that "A" is indeed unmaskable.

But there is a big flaw in their reasoning: there is always a helical magnetic field around the cylinder, created by the thin wire around the thicker.
The measuring loop passing through the inside of the cylinder, its surface cuts the flux of the helical magnetic field at each turn of the solenoid around the large cylinder. We have a measurement loop whose surface cuts a variable flux, hence the measured EMF, so everything can also be explained in a conventional way with the magnetic field instead of the vector potential.

However, we see that this topology allows new ways of manipulating fields and electrons, so I think you have an interesting subject to pursue.

Perhaps more suited to your Electromagnetic Archimed's screw thread ?.


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OK, I'm going to put this here as it comes under the title of this thread.

The attached is real bench work as some do know, a partly working TPU is on my bench but has some problems that I am trying to sort out, mainly of frequency stability and a form of feeding back.

Please heed the warning at the end as I have been suffering after working on this, I think it is body static buildup.

Regards

Mike 8)


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Please heed the warning at the end as I have been suffering after working on this, I think it is body static buildup.

Regards

Mike 8)
Hi Mike,
I second that,  I've encountered episodes of dizziness and sick feelings in my chase of the elusive TPU myself,  I didn't want to think it was coming from the TPU's but you confirm that.  I always felt better after turning them off, so everyone be aware of this.
Room 


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