Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench

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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench (Read 663181 times)

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #825 on: 2021-06-08, 08:28:49 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	OK, but the (4) pulses you show in your picture above are many from "within" a single (24.4Khz) pulse, while your screenshots (post #812) shows only one pulse for every such single pulse Anyway, i agree, the kacher produces some umph now, i only need to try to clean up the signal. Itsu

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #826 on: 2021-06-08, 21:23:19 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	PS repaired, again 2 MOSFETs (IRFP460) defect and both gate protection zeners (15V) of one MOSFET defect. Itsu

Verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #827 on: 2021-06-08, 21:40:17 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4529	Did you put ferrite beads on the DC wires to prevent HF ingress ?

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #828 on: 2021-06-08, 21:49:03 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	Do you mean on those MOSFETs? I will not use this PS for the kacher stuff anymore, and i am planning to quickly make some frontend protection to both PS output jacks by adding a choke and decoupling / filtering caps circuit. There is hardly any room inside (behind the front) to put something there, so it will be extern from the PS. Itsu

Verpies

Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #829 on: 2021-06-08, 22:35:27 »

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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-08, 21:49:03

Do you mean on those MOSFETs?

No, your MOSFETs do not have DC signals going through them.

I had these wires in mind:

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-07, 20:13:47

Its a dual PS on which you can put both PS's in series, parallel, individual etc. so lots of control wires running all over the place which makes it sensitive for HF being picked up.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-08, 21:49:03

There is hardly any room inside (behind the front) to put something there, so it will be extern from the PS.

There should be enough space to put ferrite beads on these control wires and on internal auxiliary supply wires ...and even on the 50Hz AC wires.
The filtering for the main output terminals can be external.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-07, 20:13:47

I am planning to quickly make some frontend protection to both PS output jacks by adding a choke and decoupling / filtering caps circuit.

Large output capacitance can hurt constant-current performance.

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #830 on: 2021-06-09, 09:25:33 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	Ok, i got you, there are some toroids around the bundled together wiring and some chokes visible on the board, but no beads as far as i can tell. But putting beads on all those soldered to board wires is practicle impossible, so i will leave it by protecting the frontend first. Itsu Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench chokes smaller.png (348.77 kB, 367x490 - viewed 635 times.)

Vasik041

Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #831 on: 2021-06-09, 11:16:37 »

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Posts: 915

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-09, 09:25:33

Ok, i got you, there are some toroids around the bundled together wiring and some chokes visible on the board, but no beads as far as i can tell.

But putting beads on all those soldered to board wires is practicle impossible, so i will leave it by protecting the frontend first.

Itsu

Itsu,

Good that you managed repair it.
If you have a schematic, we could check it, may be it is possible to make some improvement, so it will be more stable.

Vasik

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #832 on: 2021-06-09, 11:31:40 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	Hi Vasik, no schematics, i called Voltcraft and Conrad then, but they told me they do not have a diagram which i found hard to believe, but thats what they said. Itsu

Verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #833 on: 2021-06-09, 16:48:42 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4529	Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-09, 11:31:40 ...they told me they do not have a diagram which i found hard to believe, If you watch Luis Rossmann on YT it would be.

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #834 on: 2021-06-10, 09:34:16 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	An amazing set of video's he has, i can watch those for hours..... Itsu

Itsu

Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #835 on: 2021-06-11, 08:59:41 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-07, 20:35:03

Itsu,

I think you have 4093 chips installed into sockets, so take U10 out and pull TC signal (pins 10,12,13) to +12v (pin 14)
with 1k resistor. This should turn kacher into continuous mode.
Disconnect HV coil end from the base. Leave primary coil in place.
Transistor will act as a current source. Adjust current with R17 and if necessary with R16.

Vasik

I have moved the setup away from the bench / equipment and will use my old Owon scope / simple PS's to do measurements.

I was following the above:

"take U10 out and pull TC signal (pins 10,12,13) to +12v (pin 14) with 1k resistor. This should turn kacher into continuous mode.
Disconnect HV coil end from the base. Leave primary coil in place."

but it does not show any activity / pull current from the collector PS up till now......

Itsu

Vasik041

Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #836 on: 2021-06-11, 12:31:53 »

Newbie

Posts: 915

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-11, 08:59:41

I have moved the setup away from the bench / equipment and will use my old Owon scope / simple PS's to do measurements.
I was following the above:

"take U10 out and pull TC signal (pins 10,12,13) to +12v (pin 14) with 1k resistor. This should turn kacher into continuous mode.
Disconnect HV coil end from the base. Leave primary coil in place."

but it does not show any activity / pull current from the collector PS up till now......
Itsu

Itsu,

Please check schematic, there were some changes, may be you need pull pins 10,12,13 to ground instead.
Q4 should be off, Q5 on.

Vasik

Vasik041	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #837 on: 2021-06-11, 12:34:10 »
Newbie Posts: 915	Quote from: muDped on 2021-06-10, 21:11:29 For those who may be interested: Louis Rossman's Channel and Video List His struggle for "Right to Repair" is monumental. May be it is monumental, bug big brother does not give a sh## about it. Proper solution from my point of view - stop using it's products, so it will go out of business naturally

Verpies

Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #838 on: 2021-06-11, 13:12:15 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-11, 12:34:10

Proper solution from my point of view - stop using it's products, so it will go out of business naturally

Unfortunately the concealment of schematics, boardviews and replacement parts is spreading to other manufacturers like cancer.
Now even farm tractor manufacturers do it!

So stopping using Apple's et al, products does not solve the problem when all of them start making repairs difficult or impossible....unless you are willing to forsake using prebuilt technology entirely.

P.S.
Of course neither Rossmann nor I use Apple products, already.

Itsu

Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #839 on: 2021-06-11, 15:35:55 »

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Posts: 4704

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-11, 12:31:53

Itsu,

Please check schematic, there were some changes, may be you need pull pins 10,12,13 to ground instead.
Q4 should be off, Q5 on.

Vasik

With pins 10,12,13 to +12V, i have 0V on gate Q4, +15V on gate Q5, 0V on base transistor and 12V steady on collector transistor.

So it seems Q4 is off and Q5 on, but no current pulled from the collector PS.

What is suppose to happen? Should we have some base signal activating the transistor pulling a steady 100-200mA?

Itsu

Vasik041

Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #840 on: 2021-06-11, 15:42:30 »

Newbie

Posts: 915

Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-11, 15:35:55

With pins 10,12,13 to +12V, i have 0V on gate Q4, +15V on gate Q5, 0V on base transistor and 12V steady on collector transistor.
So it seems Q4 is off and Q5 on, but no current pulled from the collector PS.
What is suppose to happen? Should we have some base signal activating the transistor pulling a steady 100-200mA?
Itsu

+15v on gate of Q5 means that it is off.
Q5 is P-channel MOSFET
When Q5 is on, R16,R17 supposed to give some offset on base Q6

Vasik

Verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #841 on: 2021-06-11, 16:03:15 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4529	Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-06-11, 15:42:30 Q5 is P-channel MOSFET Maybe Itsu put an N-ch MOSFET there

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #842 on: 2021-06-11, 16:13:54 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	Q5 is an IRF4905 (P-channel), but its gate is hardwired to +15V via R15, only to be pulled down by Q3. But Q3 gate is 0V, its drain +15V, so no activating of Q5 Itsu

Verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #843 on: 2021-06-11, 16:47:18 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4529	Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-11, 16:13:54 But Q3 gate is 0V, its drain +15V, so no activating of Q5 Is the gate of Q3 driven by pin7 of the IR2113 ? If "yes" - are there pulses on pin7 and +15V on pin6 of the IR2113 ?

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #844 on: 2021-06-11, 16:51:36 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	Hmmm, no its driven by pin 1 of the IR2110.

Verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #845 on: 2021-06-11, 16:55:17 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4529	Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-11, 16:51:36 Hmmm, no its driven by pin 1 of the IR2110. Oh, so it is reversed compared to this schematic. In that case: Are there pulses on pin12 and pin1 and +15VDC on pin3 of the IR2113 ? Are pins 2,11,13 grounded ?

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #846 on: 2021-06-11, 16:59:38 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	Yes, there is a mix up with Pin 1 / 7 of the IR2110 there i think. No pulses as we have hardwired the U10 chip to +12V (meaning IR2110 pin 12 to 12V, and IR2110 pin 10 to 0V (via U5). IR2110 pin 2,11,13 are ground, pin 3 is +15V

Verpies	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #847 on: 2021-06-11, 17:05:37 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 4529	Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-11, 16:59:38 No pulses as we have hardwired the U10 chip to +12V (meaning IR2110 pin 12 to 12V, and IR2110 pin 10 to 0V (via U5). So what is the voltage on pin 1 ?

Itsu	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #848 on: 2021-06-11, 17:15:41 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4704	I had to rework the PCB (pin 1 / 7 swap) a few weeks ago in this thread, see: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91597#msg91597 Pin 1 has 0V same as pin 7.

Vasik041	Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #849 on: 2021-06-11, 17:40:04 »
Newbie Posts: 915	Quote from: Itsu on 2021-06-11, 17:15:41 I had to rework the PCB (pin 1 / 7 swap) a few weeks ago in this thread, see: https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91597#msg91597 Pin 1 has 0V same as pin 7. strange, what about pin 10 and 12 of U7 (IR2110) ? PS may be it is easier to take U7 out and pull pin 7 to +15v