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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 75115 times)
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The HF oscillations from the TC (>1Mc) supposed to create an electric field around the push pull coil.

Itsu

Itsu,

Is the "push pull coil" labeled as "inductor" in the image you posted or is the push pull coil the TV yoke ?

The TC is going to be ringing down/oscillating continuously.  How does only a few of the TC HV peaks get injected into the push pull and not the rest of the TC oscillations?  Is the TC coil primary voltage adjusted upward until only the few HV peaks are observed on the push pull?

PW
   

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Take a look at that piece of trivia from NickZ below:

I can explain this behavior with the exotic ferro-electric phenomenon described in that IEEE article by Konrad & Brudny, where the magnetic properties of certain ferrite types are susceptible to influence by external electric fields.
I have one such ferrite. Its permeability is evidently modulated when subjected to intense external electric fields, e.g. from a Tesla coil.  Perhaps the push-pull circuit drives a winding on such ferrite.

P.S.
In my previous message, I attached another overview diagram. This time from Stalker.



   Verpies: I must also add that Geofusion had quite long leads on his yoke going to its driver circuit, I don't, which can also account for his device to stop working when he would move the yoke closer or further from the grenade coils. As I had mentioned, mine does no such thing, nor do I have long leads all over the place. I believe that it's more of a matter of him losing the sync, by moving his yoke, instead of making it work better or as it should. Yet, positioning did seam to be important, in his case, but, not in mine. Just a bit more trivia.
   
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The ferrite gizmo is between the secondary and the antenna, see a picture of my set up below.

Itsu

Itsu,

If you're going to do the "glow in the dark" test, pay particular attention to the TC to ferrite gizmo connections (and to the aluminum antenna, which I can't see).  The first TC to ferrite connection looks rather pointed and aimed in a manner just asking for corona discharge.

Also, watch carefully around your TC former.

What material did you end up winding the TC secondary on?

And please be careful playing in the dark...

PW
   

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   Playing in the dark:
   Reminds me of what I used to do with my cars, at night, while watching for unwanted sparks and streams coming from the ignition wires, shorting to ground. It sure worked...
   

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Itsu,

Is the "push pull coil" labeled as "inductor" in the image you posted or is the push pull coil the TV yoke ?

The TC is going to be ringing down/oscillating continuously.  How does only a few of the TC HV peaks get injected into the push pull and not the rest of the TC oscillations?  Is the TC coil primary voltage adjusted upward until only the few HV peaks are observed on the push pull?

PW

The push pull coil is the inductor in my image.

The antenna is the one injecting HV peaks into the inductor so the antenna should contain only this burst of 5 peaks.
The ferrite transformer perhaps in combination with a spark gap should transform the kacher secondary "ringing down/oscillating continuously" into this burst somehow.

How this burst is accomplished is one of the questions i have, therefor my tests with the GDT.

Itsu
   

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Itsu,

If you're going to do the "glow in the dark" test, pay particular attention to the TC to ferrite gizmo connections (and to the aluminum antenna, which I can't see).  The first TC to ferrite connection looks rather pointed and aimed in a manner just asking for corona discharge.

Also, watch carefully around your TC former.

What material did you end up winding the TC secondary on?

And please be careful playing in the dark...

PW

OK,   its a cardboard tube the secondary is on.

 O0

Itsu
   

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Itsu,

Is the "push pull coil" labeled as "inductor" in the image you posted or is the push pull coil the TV yoke ?

The TC is going to be ringing down/oscillating continuously.  How does only a few of the TC HV peaks get injected into the push pull and not the rest of the TC oscillations?  Is the TC coil primary voltage adjusted upward until only the few HV peaks are observed on the push pull?

PW


   PW: Yes, the inductor circuit and it's "inductor coil" is also connected in series as part of the 3 or 4 turn secondary coil of the yoke coils. There are two secondary yoke coils. One of them is the 3 or 4 turn secondary yoke coil that goes to the "inductor coil". The other secondary is the 25 to 28t coil on the yoke that goes to the bigger 40 meter grenade output coil. The inductor coil then reradiates the Kachers HV signal throughout both the inductor circuit, as well as onto the grenade output coil circuit. And then out to the rectifier, caps, and bulbs, and the feed back circuit PS, and back to the input, to self run. That is the plan.
   
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   Playing in the dark:
   Reminds me of what I used to do with my cars, at night, while watching for unwanted sparks and streams coming from the ignition wires, shorting to ground. It sure worked...

Been there done that too...
   
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Posts: 289

   PW: Yes, the inductor circuit and it's "inductor coil" is also connected in series as part of the 3 or 4 turn secondary coil of the yoke coils. There are two secondary yoke coils. One of them is the 3 or 4 turn secondary yoke coil that goes to the "inductor coil". The other secondary is the 25 to 28t coil on the yoke that goes to the bigger 40 meter grenade output coil. The inductor coil then reradiates the Kachers HV signal throughout both the inductor circuit, as well as onto the grenade output coil circuit. And then out to the rectifier, caps, and bulbs, and the feed back circuit PS, and back to the input, to self run. That is the plan.

I have seen an image posted some pages back that referred to the TC primary as the inductor.

It gets more confusing when various coils are called various things.

What is the TV yoke based transformer called?

So what is being referred to if discussing the "push pull coil" ?  The yoke based transformer, the inductor coil, or both?

PW
   
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Just so I know I have the coil nomenclature correct, in the photo Itsu recently posted:

On the left is the TC primary surrounding the left end of the TC secondary.  The left end (I'd call bottom) of the TC secondary goes to J2-1/Q6 base and the right end of the TC secondary (I'd call top) is connected to the left end of the ferrite gizmo (name please?).  The right end of the ferrite gizmo is connected to the left end of the aluminum antenna (which to me is the TC top load) with the right end of the antenna connected to nothing. 

The antenna surrounds the inductor coil.  The inductor is driven from the yoke based transformer's secondary (name?).  (Is one or both of these referred to as the push pull coil?)

The elaborate windings under and to the left of the inductor is the grenade.

If most of the above is correct, it almost scares me...

PW

   

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I have seen an image posted some pages back that referred to the TC primary as the inductor.

It gets more confusing when various coils are called various things.

What is the TV yoke based transformer called?

So what is being referred to if discussing the "push pull coil" ?  The yoke based transformer, the inductor coil, or both?

PW



   PW:  Although the TC does have an "inductor coil", as its primary coil of the TC circuit, that is not what we are talking about.
   For the yoke core transformer we simply mean to use the term as the Yoke. But, the yoke, and the inductor coil are not the same thing.
Yet, they are both connected into the 3 turn inductor/yoke circuit, by a series connection, along with at least a 0.47mf 2000v wima capacitor.
   
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   PW:  Although the TC does have an "inductor coil", as its primary coil of the TC circuit, that is not what we are talking about.
   For the yoke core transformer we simply mean to use the term as the Yoke. But, the yoke, and the inductor coil are not the same thing.
Yet, they are both connected into the 3 turn inductor/yoke circuit, by a series connection, along with at least a 0.47mf 2000v wima capacitor.

So the yoke based transformer is just referred to as the "yoke", and the primaries of the yoke are driven by the push pull circuit.  The secondary of the yoke drives the "inductor", which is wound over the small end of the "grenade".

Should not the TC primary and secondary just be referred to as the TC primary and secondary?

PW
   
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Anybody want to take a shot at explaining the function of the ferrite gizmo between the TC and antenna?

(Although ferrite gizmo has a nice ring to it, what is it usually called?)

PW
   

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Anybody want to take a shot at explaining the function of the ferrite gizmo between the TC and antenna?
I do not know but this block diagram calls for this ferrite rod to be a low-frequency one.  So maybe a low-pass filter ?
Also, it is conspicuous that the current flowing in windings which are wound in such manner will produce bucking magnetic flux, which is axial under the windings and radial between the windings. So maybe a Mace-Meyer analogue ?
On the other hand the bucking flux can reverse the ferrite's frequency characteristic ...so maybe a high-pas filter ?  I  need to think more about the frequency-dependent coupling coefficient of bucking coils connected in series and its influence on their mutual inductance...
Take your pick...

« Last Edit: 2021-06-23, 00:14:36 by verpies »
   
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I do not know but this block diagram calls for this ferrite to be a low-frequency one.
Also, it is conspicuous that the currents flowing in windings wound in such manner will produce bucking magnetic flux, which is axial under the windings and radial between the windings.

And yet a few of the high frequency, high voltage, TC pulses are supposed to pass through the ferrite gizmo to the antenna and somehow induce/couple a few of those pulses from the antenna into the inductor?

Verpies, thanks for posting that multicolored graphical/schematic representation a few posts back.  I wish I had seen that earlier.  I asked similar questions 30 pages back and was provided schematics of the various coils as connected, but this last one you posted lays out all the coils "as built" which was most helpful.

Thanks again,
PW
   
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Do all variations on this theme use the ferrite gizmo?

PW
   

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So the yoke based transformer is just referred to as the "yoke", and the primaries of the yoke are driven by the push pull circuit.  The secondary of the yoke drives the "inductor", which is wound over the small end of the "grenade".

Should not the TC primary and secondary just be referred to as the TC primary and secondary?

PW


   PW:  That is correct, yet there are two yoke secondary coils. The second one (25 to 28 turns on the yoke coil) goes from the yoke to the bigger 40m long grenade output coil. And, this second yoke secondary circuit is also in series, with a small 0.15mf or so tuning capacitor. Each diagram or schematic is different. But, what I just mentioned are the standard mode of operation. Just how or why the two different circuits combine to produce OU, Is still unknown, to me. Yet, the idea is a standing wave device that interacts with the Aether, and can harvest from the surrounding ambient energies.
   Of course, most will disagree, as most have never seen it at work. Nor have I, but here's hoping...

   One more thing, about that gizmo thingy.  I can tell you what it does, it intensifies the spark, or streamers, by a lot. Just how or why, I don't know.
But, without it, the Kacher signal is weak. So, it helps, and can or may work even without it, as Geofusion has shown, but, not as well. On most self runners it's there. But, it's getting to be not so easy to find one of those ferrite rods, or bars, (as in my case), out of an old radio, anymore.

   NickZ
   
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   PW:  That is correct, yet there are two yoke secondary coils. The second one (25 to 28 turns on the yoke coil) goes from the yoke to the bigger 40m long grenade output coil. And, this second yoke secondary circuit is also in series, with a small 0.15mf or so tuning capacitor. Each diagram or schematic is different. But, what I just mentioned are the standard mode of operation. Just how or why the two different circuits combine to produce OU, Is still unknown, to me. Yet, the idea is a standing wave device that interacts with the Aether, and can harvest from the surrounding ambient energies.
   Of course, most will disagree, as most have never seen it at work. Nor have I, but here's hoping...

   One more thing, about that gizmo thingy.  I can tell you what it does, it intensifies the spark, or streamers, by a lot. Just how or why, I don't know.
But, without it, the Kacher signal is weak. So, it helps, and can or may work even without it, as Geofusion has shown, but, not as well. On most self runners it's there. But, it's getting to be not so easy to find one of those ferrite rods, or bars, (as in my case), out of an old radio, anymore.

   NickZ

NickZ,

Thanks... I greatly appreciate all your replies.  Seems weird that the ferrite gizmo actually enhances the TC output.

I see in the schematics above, that one version has the output pulled directly from the rectified grenade whereas the other has a second yoke or toroid in a convoluted circuit with the push pull yoke coil prior to rectification.

I, like most I suppose, am trying to find a common theme...

Thanks again,
PW
   
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Did I read correctly some pages back that someone claimed the ground wire was not needed for a self-runner?

PW
   

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Seems weird that the ferrite gizmo actually enhances the TC output.
I speculated that the gizmo might be a low-pass filter, but maybe it is just the opposite.

LT is the total combined inductance of the two bucking coils wound on one ferrite rod:
LT = L1 + L2 – 2*k*(L1*L2)0.5

The higher the permeability of the rod, the higher is their coefficient of coupling (k). The closer the coils are, the higher the k, too.  If the coils were intertwined with each other in the same space then the their coefficient of coupling (k) would be the highest (almost 1).
The higher the k, the lower their combined inductance (LT), because coils are in opposition and their individual mutual inductances subtract. If k=1 then the combined inductance of two equal coils is zero. Zero inductance means zero reactance and minimal opposition to AC current.

This would mean that the frequency characteristic of the ferrite gets inverted ...and two equal bucking coils wound on a low frequency ferrite act as a high-pass filter.
...or Meyer-Mace analogue because of the perpendicular fluxes ;)
   

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But, it's getting to be not so easy to find one of those ferrite rods, or bars, (as in my case), out of an old radio, anymore.
Rods from radios are not necessarily made out of low-frequency ferrite.
   

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PW,

its good to have the "coil nomenclature correct", but be aware that you have to use those names loosely as in many, many diagrams and video's these
names are intermixed with each other, so you have to always question yourself what coil is being mentioned where.

Part of the translation and different word meaning between Russian and English i guess.



Was "playing in the dark" yesterday evening, but it strikes me how difficult it is to really make a room dark especially here at the attic without
any curtains where the outside lights are overwelming after some time, and even a led on the pcb can heart your eyes.


Anyway, with battery powered 24V on the pcb and idem powered 12V on the collector, the ne-2 neon showed we have oscillations, but no corona discharge
was seen on the kacher secondary, ferrite transformer (gizmo) or antenna nor on their interconnections.

I tried with a grounded / ungrounded screwdriver to touch the various parts, which usually with enough RF power shows some streamers, but not the
slightest arc was seen, meaning to me that the power used (12V on collector) is to low to cause that, so i think we could rule out that for a reason
to have such erratic collector signal.

Some options noted by Vasik to clean up that signal is to increase the kacher primary from the present 4 turns to 6 and/or to put a HV ceramic capacitor (1 - 2nF)
across the kacher primary coil.

Not sure if the goal is to get it into resonance on a specific frequency.


Itsu
   

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Hi Itsu,

Was "playing in the dark" yesterday evening, but it strikes me how difficult it is to really make a room dark especially here at the attic without
any curtains where the outside lights are overwelming after some time, and even a led on the pcb can heart your eyes.

Anyway, with battery powered 24V on the pcb and idem powered 12V on the collector, the ne-2 neon showed we have oscillations, but no corona discharge
was seen on the kacher secondary, ferrite transformer (gizmo) or antenna nor on their interconnections.

I tried with a grounded / ungrounded screwdriver to touch the various parts, which usually with enough RF power shows some streamers, but not the
slightest arc was seen, meaning to me that the power used (12V on collector) is to low to cause that, so i think we could rule out that for a reason
to have such erratic collector signal.

Some options noted by Vasik to clean up that signal is to increase the kacher primary from the present 4 turns to 6 and/or to put a HV ceramic capacitor (1 - 2nF)
across the kacher primary coil.

Not sure if the goal is to get it into resonance on a specific frequency.

somehow I lost the track, there were so many "theoretical" reasoning.

What was you expecting to see in the dark ? what is purpose of the test ?

Regards,
Vasik


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The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   

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Hi Vasik,


the purpose of the "glow in the dark" test was to see if there are any "brush/corona discharges" while in 12V collector voltage as we see a rather distorted
collector voltage signal, see this post https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg92967#msg92967 where i have in yellow the collector
and antenna feedback currents and in red the collector voltage.

According to PW this distorted collector voltage signal could be caused by a "brush/corona discharge" on any of the kacher secondary, ferrite transformer
or antenna (and interconnections) parts.

Itsu
   

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Itsu,

Hi Vasik,
the purpose of the "glow in the dark" test was to see if there are any "brush/corona discharges" while in 12V collector voltage as we see a rather distorted
collector voltage signal, see this post https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg92967#msg92967 where i have in yellow the collector
and antenna feedback currents and in red the collector voltage.

According to PW this distorted collector voltage signal could be caused by a "brush/corona discharge" on any of the kacher secondary, ferrite transformer
or antenna (and interconnections) parts.

but max voltage on collector on that picture is 100v, isn't it ?
I think it is very unlikely to have corona discharge in the air at 100v

I think "distortion" here is a result of multiple reflections in primary coil.
If you want make it look better you need adjust it's length and width so it could resonate on a secondary coil's harmonic. Probably easier (not sure if better) option to add small capacitor in parallel to primary and tune with it.

Vasik



---------------------------
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
   
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