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Author Topic: Serbian Professor Savic Sonic water heater replication COP 12  (Read 294044 times)
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...
HEAT / STEAM RESONATOR (ELEMENT) STAN MEYER STYL ....CIRCUIT TEST
90VDC / 1000MA ...AT 1.2 KHz

WE ARE TESTING THIS ELEMENT FOR THE HOME HEATING BOILER.....HEATUP 1LITER WATER FORM 15C TO 90C CELSIUS IN JUST 1 SEC ....THAT IS FASTER THAN A MAGNETRON......ELEMENT IN THIS TEST IS 3XXX 3#INCH....WE US A NEW CIRCUIT FOR THIS TEST
...

Sure it is "faster than a magnetron". A common magnetron is in the range 1->2 Kw. Heating up 1l water from 15C to 90C in 1 second needs 313Kw!

Some thoughts:

The speed of sound in water is around 1500m/s. At 1.2 kHz, the wavelength is: 1500/1200 = 1.25m. We are far from the dimension of the device, so we can consider that there is no stationary waves in water, therefore no pressure gradient in the volume.

Then I wondered if the phenomenon could come from a supersonic speed in water of the vibrating material. Suppose that the displacement of the vibrating material is +/- 1mm, which is an overestimated value. During 1/2 period of the 1.2 Khz current, le material moves from -1mm to +1mm relative to its equilibrium position. It travels 2 mm in 1/2*T. Its speed is: 2*10-3 /(1/2 * 1/1200)=4.8 m/s. We are very far from a supersonic speed, even though it is a mean speed and the peak speed is more.

So the only involved phenomenon that I can see for the moment, is a simple time varying pressure in water, the pressure at each instant being uniform in the volume.


« Last Edit: 2011-09-10, 11:46:37 by exnihiloest »
   
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Exnihiloest
Sir
This seems like science fiction to me...........
Somehow I don't think it is ,These boys that made this movie are playing with a drive circuit they claim was reverse engineered from Stan Meyer  " 8XA" or something?

Another man came to OU . com the other day posting a Vid with this 8XA circuit ,I believe he said TONYWOODSIDE was the engineer.

I would love it if Farrah would weigh in on the above [Cringe]

Thank you
Chet
EDIT   8XA TONYWOODSIDE
« Last Edit: 2011-09-10, 14:40:52 by ramset »
   
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I heard back from my contact on the sonic boiler.  I had asked for the specs for his European version sonic boiler so we could replicate it.  I know that he told me early in our correspondence that the beer can had to be tuned to 50 Hz for Europe and 60 Hz for USA.  Anyway, The following sentence is his response to me:

1.725mm electrode distance is 60 Hz. 300 Hz and the negative electrode has to play the sonic boiler.

So, I don't know whether he did the math for the USA version here or not.  He says 60 Hz in his statement, so this (1.725mm) may be the gap for our US version.  He doesn't waste time with a lot of words.  I was very precise in my request.
   
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Slovenia
Of course this raises more questions,and yes your man sounds like he could be getting Peeved!!

This happens all to easy sometimes [the Peeved part].

-----------
In the Mean Time
We do  have something very interesting going on with this Movie MonsieurM posted at Energetic.

 { a repost}     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsmdSkYEp6M



Something is Up with this 8XA TONYWOODSIDE circuit?? [sudden Notoriety many places]

I like what Exnihiloest Posted above and his "Pressure everywhere" analysis! {Makes Me Think "WiTTS"]

I will try to collect more info ?
Chet
PS
MonsieurM also posted this Movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzS2qhZPZfo&feature=related [Hendershot and Hubbard ]
From Here  http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8999-peter-daysh-davey-water-heater-query-2.html#post156160

EDIT 8XA TONYWOODSIDE



« Last Edit: 2011-09-10, 14:42:18 by ramset »
   
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I think he's starting to get frustrated with all the questions.  This guy is a well educated; high level; non English speaking person.  I am lucky he corresponded back to me in the first place.  In the USA, a man of this guy's stature would not have returned my e-mails.  I don't want to give his identity away, but he's not your average Joe.

Slovenia
Of course this raises more questions,and yes your man sounds like he could be getting Peeved!!

This happens all to easy sometimes [the Peeved part].

   
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New Message from Contact:  (Re: Sonic Boiler Scenario)

Sonic boiler are trying to make a 110 Volt 60 Hertz has a COP = 6.93 when upgraded water at 80 degrees Celsius for central heating. It works better than the best air conditioners can be purchased with money in the USA.

Do not raise the voltage above 110 volts, you do not burn out a fuse on the pole.  If you set the way as I explained vamnacrtao and will work well on 110 Volts 60 Hertz in the USA in Europe will not work.



Attn.:  Does anyone know what vamnacrtao means in either Russian or Serbian?  Google translate couldn't translate it for me.

P.S.:  So, it would appear that my contact did the math for free for our USA 110 volts.  I only asked for his European version, so that's what I expected him to share with me.  So, I will change my diagram again to fit USA 110 volts.

   
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If you set the way as I explained vamnacrtao and will work well on 110 Volts 60 Hertz in the USA in Europe will not work.


If you set the way as I explained to you in the drawing and will work well on 110 Volts 60 Hertz in the USA in Europe will not work.


   
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Thanks very much Mookie!!




If you set the way as I explained vamnacrtao and will work well on 110 Volts 60 Hertz in the USA in Europe will not work.

If you set the way as I explained to you in the drawing and will work well on 110 Volts 60 Hertz in the USA in Europe will not work.

   
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Sept. 10, 2011  Latest Upgraded Sonic Boiler Diagram:  (For USA Only)

   
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It's turtles all the way down
You have to make up your mind is it DC or AC?

If it is powered from the AC mains directly there can be no Anode or Cathode. The first drawing showed a + and - so I called them Anode and Cathode.

Then it was DC at 1.2 kHz ??????

Now it is back to 60 Hz mains power. Whats up with that?

A clearly written engineering style spec along with the drawing would dispel a lot of confusion e.g:

Applied Voltage:
Applied Current: (disregard if self limited)
Applied Frequency:
Expected Power Usage: (Watts)
Can Resonant Frequency:
Ring Resonant Frequency:
Length of Can (mm):
Diameter of Can (mm):
Diameter of Ring: (mm):
Gap between innermost part of ring to can (mm):
Size of outer vessel (L, W, D mm)
Material of outer vessel:
Size of inlet and outlet ports:
Flow rate: (L / min or Gal / min)
Transport medium or working fluid:
Temperature of inlet medium:
Temperature of outlet medium:

etc
« Last Edit: 2011-09-11, 00:08:27 by ION »


---------------------------
"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   

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Attn.:  Does anyone know what vamnacrtao means in either Russian or Serbian?  Google translate couldn't translate it for me.

 'vam nacrtao' is rooted from the Štokavian dialects meaning something like 'you drew' or 'you have drawn'.

Without seeing his full text I can only say he is using words which are common in Croatia, Serbia and surrounding areas, not Russian or Georgian.


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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ION,

Nice to hear from you.  I'm just the messenger boy.  I know absolutely nothing about electricity.  I do know that the sonic boiler operates directly off the main current of 110 volts.  My contact said that the ring was the negative electrode.  

As for being provided with an engineering spec sheet by my contact, that will not happen.  It will be up to me and maybe you to organize the facts we have been given into the best information sheet we can put together.  I have started a pdf file, but it is still a bit rough because my contact does not speak a word of English.

Regards,
Slovenia

You have to make up your mind is it DC or AC?

If it is powered from the AC mains directly there can be no Anode or Cathode. The first drawing showed a + and - so I called them Anode and Cathode.

Then it was DC at 1.2 kHz ??????

Now it is back to 60 Hz mains power. Whats up with that?

A clearly written engineering style spec along with the drawing would dispel a lot of confusion e.g:

Applied Voltage:
Applied Current: (disregard if self limited)
Applied Frequency:
Expected Power Usage: (Watts)
Can Resonant Frequency:
Ring Resonant Frequency:
Length of Can (mm):
Diameter of Can (mm):
Diameter of Ring: (mm):
Gap between innermost part of ring to can (mm):
Size of outer vessel (L, W, D mm)
Material of outer vessel:
Size of inlet and outlet ports:
Flow rate: (L / min or Gal / min)
Transport medium or working fluid:
Temperature of inlet medium:
Temperature of outlet medium:

etc
   
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Slovenia
Tell you what I'm gonna do
Tommorrow I am going to Thro this together
I'll post a pic for you to send to him?

Then all this Plus and minus stuff will get figured and maybe this whole thing will come into focus?

Obviously it won't be built to any specs ,because as ION points out we don't have any.

Chet
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Hi Chet and Slovenia

I probably should not even be butting into this thread, I'm just trying ask the questions to get the data organized in order to dispel confusion.

I'm sure you guys will get a build spec together that is clear, concise and contains all the pertinent data.

Best of luck and Kind Regards


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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ION
Your but is very welcome in this thread!!

And any one else that wants to see a Polish Barbeque PFHHIT sizzle...............

Thanks
Chet
PS
BTW
The fellows from this Movie

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsmdSkYEp6M


Responded today
Quote:



@ramset1 WE STILL TESTING THE CIRCUIT, WITH GREAT RESULTS

WE DONT LIKE TO GIVE WRONG INFORMATIONS ,AS SOON WE READY WILL

WILL KEEP YOU INFORM

THANKS.....
THEWATERENERGY1 3 hours
   
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Hi Chet,

I just heard back from my contact and he said I had enough information.  He didn't answer any more of my questions.  So, it would appear that he's either waiting to see a pic of my build or he's done with me.  I think he'll continue to share if I show him a pic of a device we're trying to put together.  I was messing around with an aluminum can this afternoon.  They are a real pain to work with.  I was playing with a fat American pop can but it was a chore.  Anyway, I am very interested in this device and want one for my collection.  I want to heat a water bath with one of these babies.  I will have to add some accessories to it to get it to work for me.

Thanks ION for having a look at the sonic boiler.  I think that it's the real deal but there is a language barrier and I'm not an electrical guy.  Thanks for your recommendations!!  Much appreciated.  I did not mean to be short.  I have always been a team player.

Regards,
Slovenia

Slovenia
Tell you what I'm gonna do
Tommorrow I am going to Thro this together
I'll post a pic for you to send to him?

Then all this Plus and minus stuff will get figured and maybe this whole thing will come into focus?

Obviously it won't be built to any specs ,because as ION points out we don't have any.

Chet
   
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That 1.725mm gap my contact gave me is less than 1/16".  So, that's going to be fun.
   
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Last Communication from Contact:
Sept 10, 2011
Great you understand and draw a picture. That should be done

He is done helping us for now.
   
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...
Thanks ION for having a look at the sonic boiler.  I think that it's the real deal but there is a language barrier and I'm not an electrical guy.
...

The schematics also is a barrier. I share ION's perplexity. It is question of 60 hz, of 300hz, of 1.2 Khz elsewhere. It is question of "cathode" when we see only AC sources. It is question of "sonic" when we don't even know where the sound comes from. There is a gap of "1.725mm" implying that the beer can must be positioned with a 1µ accuracy, what is not compatible with the material (not even measurable). And so on...

All the stuff is completely inconsistent, it is impossible to analyse anything. For the moment, this "sonic heater" appears to me as a real joke.


   
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EX
That tolerance will be maintained with a piece of Mica or other appropriate shim stock.

Who knows ?
Its easy enough to play with!

I heard a song a few years back in the NYC area,it was more like a Ballad on how to have a better life.
One of the suggestions was "do something everyday that scares you"

This will Do...............
And if I get lucky maybe a little Free Electro shock therapy?

Chet
   
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Contact Shared Again:
Sept. 11, 2011
What you supply area of the apartment, you calculate the width and thickness of the electrode, zero reba to resonate at 300 Hz.  Fuse will die if you are using electricity for over 15 Amperes

This latest information was necessary and helpful.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Contact Shared Again:
Sept. 11, 2011
What you supply area of the apartment, you calculate the width and thickness of the electrode, zero reba to resonate at 300 Hz.  Fuse will die if you are using electricity for over 15 Amperes

This latest information was necessary and helpful.

"Fuse will die if you are using electricity for over 15 Amperes"

If the implication is that the device uses up to 15 Amperes, then you will certainly get a lot of water heating with 1650 Watts input. There would be a steam explosion if sufficient flow was not maintained.

Where is the proof of excess energy? or is this a poor man's way of making an ordinary water heater without immersion elements?


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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ION
Oddly to me he seems to be implying that we stay under 15amps??

If the input were 1650
his Cop 6.? would put output at close to 10,000 watts

Who knows?...........
we;ll see in the next few days .

Chet
   
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I also understood my contact's statement to say that we could not exceed 15 Amperes or we would blow a fuse.
   
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ION
Oddly to me he seems to be implying that we stay under 15amps??

If the input were 1650
his Cop 6.? would put output at close to 10,000 watts

Who knows?...........
we;ll see in the next few days .

Chet

For rising up 1kg water from 15°C to 90°C in 1s, you need 313 KW. This rules out a Cop 6.

   
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