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Author Topic: Serbian Professor Savic Sonic water heater replication COP 12  (Read 295714 times)
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Your bench is fine if it's ok with you.

Fine with me (and Chet) -- so I'll set that up.  I don't think this anomalous effect is due to neutrinos (!) so I won't call it a "neutrino-based water heater" LOL.   I understand we are looking at results and various tests on a "black box" water heater, first to ascertain whether there is an OU effect here.  Experiments before theory -- which is a great approach IMO, in this case.


So I propose to title the thread "Black-box Water Heater Experiments" or simply "Sonic Boiler Experiments".  Open for suggestions.  Will set up in about 1/2 hour.
   
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  Steve
Very Nice!!
THX
Chet
   
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well
I am having a hard time getting thru ATM
I will not call after 5pm my time [15 min from now]
It gets to late.
I imagine its quite daunting to make your first Movie,with so many details to cover!
And wanting everything just right!!

Keep you posted
Chet

   
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Chet:

You are the one that needs to take a chill pill.  You don't see a resemblance between the Witts "water heater" and the Nomad probe?  It was just a joke, it's wasn't "crossing the line."  About the Witts device, I told you that the hot water was already in the metal sphere at the start of the clip but you did not respond.  Why didn't you respond?  The clip is a fake.  With you it's sometimes like taking candy from a baby.  Even on the main free energy forums, the Witts boys are almost universally panned as scam artists.  Surely you are aware of that?

I stated that it was time to get serious and we need credible evidence and you turn around and copy all of the non-credible reports of COP > 1 from the EF thread and then post them as "proof."  What the hell?  And yes, we are at a point where if somebody posts cryptic and incomplete data it should not be accepted.

Do you remember the user "Bolt" from the Romero threads?  For months and months and months every day Bolt posted about the "VARS" and "VSWR" and how the Romero version of the Muller motor/generator was guaranteed to work, all that you had to do was set up your LC resonance and it would self-run and export power.  Months and months went by with no progress whatsoever.  Finally some people forced Bolt's hand and asked him for evidence.  Bolt pointed to RomeroUK as the "proof" that what he was saying was true.  But Romero is not credible, and Wattsup found the cheating wires in his clips.  Bolt disappeared and hasn't been heard from since.  Slovenia is sounding a lot like that, a shill, another Bolt.  When he says that there are people on EF that have the sonic boiler working but he can't mention any names he should be challenged.  That kind of behaviour is detracting from the "cause," and not advancing it.

You are stating that the COP 7 guy is going to make a video clip?  That's fine but I said that he needed to present credible experimental data, not a movie clip, and you agreed.  What about the credible presentation of data?  Will that be forthcoming?

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2012-01-08, 22:15:48 by MileHigh »
   
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Slovenia:

On EF the new user "osamaricu_te" claims that he did lots and lots of testing and got no positive results.

Here is your reply:

Quote
This device when tuned properly according to provided specifications will give you a high COP!! If you were not able to get a COP>1 please don't share your results on this thread and make statements inferring that our device is a waste of time and/or crap. That is pure nonsense and not appreciated.

That is pure shill talk from you and it's unacceptable.  You have to deal with the results of testing, both good and bad.  You are not Big Brother and you can expect that all of the credible testing results that are reported will not show any magical COP numbers.  Sorry, but that's the way the real world works.  Tests will be done an the results will be discussed without any censorship from you.

MileHigh
   
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Ruff Day.....
I was away from my shop phone the last half of the day .......{i have an overseas Calling Acc't on that phone]

Any hoo
I'll be calling in the AM ..
@
Chet gives a long Sigh.. after a very tense day!!

MH
You are much more than a worthy adversary .....I am defenseless against your Life skills in these matters !
The line in the sand {fresh start] made me feel safe!!
B L {before line] A L {after Line}
Now You are going outside the forum to places that have very little to do with this Movie and grabbing comments that have nothing to do with  A L life at O U R .

We agreed on a deal ....Your deal
Are you ....Have you....     Changed the deal without telling me??

This is very important to me and many others here and elsewhere, we agreed to how this would be done  
Looking in the rear view mirror isn't allowed .
 And I don't want to hear what Obomba din wassi or whomever has to say about the price of tea in Guam!



Please give your answer
Do we have a deal [your deal]
Yes or no!!
With all respect
Chet
PS
Or You could swear an oath of silence {A Bin wassi spiritual thing ]


   
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Chet:

Okay, we have a deal, read below for some clarification.  We will let some issues go unanswered because they are not so important.

I'll keep quiet and wait for the COP 7 video clip.  However, the deal is for the presentation of the data.  I asked you if we will be getting the data and you haven't answered.  Will we be getting the presentation of the data?

The deal was that we will examine the COP 7 claim with an open mind and with a clean slate.  That's all it was.  You are trying to expand the parameters of the deal to the entire discussion and that was never stated.  Don't try to put words in my mouth.  But, you know what, I will agree to that.

However, this implicit "expanded" deal that was never discussed should be a two-way street.  On your side I am asking you to refrain from presenting incomplete or incoherent or nonsensical data as "proof" of COP like you did the other day.  Fair enough?  You yourself are able to recognize when someone is presenting credible data so for the sake of the thread, don't pollute it with junk.

In a way Chet I am your "Cod Liver Oil" best friend.  If I didn't push then the threads on both sides of the border would remain floundering and incoherent and not credible and going nowhere fast.  I think that you have learned that there are limits to how much pie-in-the-sky material can be presented before some people say "enough."

What I can also tell you is that I can easily visualize in my mind exactly what happens when you pump mains power through the device.  I mean literally exactly what happens, including if the metal electrodes start to resonate.  I can easily do the experiment in my head and unfortunately nothing special happens.

So do I have the "Vision Thing" down in my mind and am I correct?  Let's see some credible data presented and find out.

MileHigh
   
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Yes
A deal it is
I will most likely NOT be involved in any way on that thread .
I am not even going for any Moderator privileges !
I take you at your word.....And just for Clarity The biggest reason we are doing this is to show "Numbas"
POUT AND PIN Or PIN and POUT {Rosy gets very picky about that part for some reason] ?

The other reasons this Venue has been chosen is to see if this type of Public forum can Vet a device like this in a Civil way.
With most of the members here being long time researchers and enthusiasts of OU the Member list Spans Many Forums
It is also closed to Invitation only ATM and this will keep nair do wells and sillyness to a minimum !
Add to that the Moderator status and flexibility that peterae and Poynt have given This!!

Its very Cool..............

I will make no comment on what you see in your head MH
But I will say Others can see things too ............

I pray tomorrow brings resolve to this issue..

A little repost on whom you are betting against


Some history
The movie you are going to see sometime today is being presented By a man who knows what it takes to heat water!! He has been Designing and tweaking heat pump systems
most of his Life ,A consummate professional with the Work Ethic and standards [scrutiny] necessary to make real time real world advances in his field!!
Heretofore these advances came at Flea gas levels ...thus the equipment and techniques required to "SEE" results worth pursuing ,had to be very sensitive and quite familiar to the user.

I would also like to add ....There is absolutely no way this man is playing games with this.
what he sees is real ...whether it can be attributed to some other explainable condition [reactive power etc etc]
remains to be seen?
I personally as you know have no knowledge of how this could be?
Thats why some of you are here!

Also.... this Reactive power statement of mine ....Is in all probability ignorance on my part!!
This gentlemen made an observation on Professor Savics Tea kettle heater that explained his familiarity with these types of  open water inductive  heaters.
While he felt they could show some interesting things ,,,They could not do what todays Heat pump tech can do!

I am not referring to the "sonic Boiler"   but the little round one that Branislov is holding in the pic.

   
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OK
The Movie should be finished today,

We want to address reactive power as it may apply to this device .
Is there a way to measure reactive power in our homes?

Our friend feels it could not be doing this due to the fact its doing 2kwh work on an ice cold 3Amp auto type fuse!

Comments please?

Thank you
Chet
PS
Also being discussed here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/10294-help-please-understanding-reactive-power.html#post174931
   
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Chet:

The Google search on "reactive power" brings you to a comprehensive Wikipedia entry "AC Power."  Reactive power is not "another form of power," it's just regular power from the power plant where the voltage and current go out of phase because of the nature of the electrical load.  There is no "other source of reactive power" that is some kind of supplement to the power provided by the power company, they are essentially the same thing.  I mention that because I have seen many postings that make those kind of speculations.

Reactive power has absolutely nothing to do with this experiment.  The setup is a resistive load and all of the power going into the load is real power, i.e.; the power factor is one.

Quote
Is there a way to measure reactive power in our homes?

Older-generation electrical meters did not measure power factor, and hence could not measure the reactive power associated with an individual home.  I am going to guess that modern home electrical meters can measure the power factor, and by extension the reactive power.  All that you have to do is measure the phase relationship between the voltage and the current to measure the reactive power.

Quote
Our friend feels it could not be doing this due to the fact its doing 2kwh work on an ice cold 3Amp auto type fuse!

That's a very cryptic statement and I just deleted my text and decided to not interpret for you because I could be wrong.  Try turning that statement into a few sentences where you clearly get your point across and there is no ambiguity and then I will try to respond.  Who is your friend, is it the person with the claim of COP 7?

MileHigh
   
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MH
Its in regard to the meter ??
Can this be tricking the meter??
Gotta go I'm Working
Chet
   
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MH
Yes The phase ...........There was a lot of talk from the other end of the phone  this AM about Phase.
Chet doesn't speak "Phase" ,but he also doesn't interrupt!

WE have a member "Duncan" [An EE] who was mentioning something about Phase during our thread over at Energetic.
Just trying not to leave any stones un turned during the 'whats causing this"  Phase.

The Movie is still in production .

Chet
   
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  No need to rush, Chet. 

  With regard to tests/checks, I would recommend running from a battery (no mains power at all) through an inverter.  Measure the power coming from the battery (DC).

OR -- better in some ways -- use a large capacitor and measure the Energy supplied by the cap using

E = 1/2 C( Vinitial**2 - Vfinal**2).

Here, one could use an inverter or pulsed-DC to drive the DUT.
   
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Steve
Yes batteries are being used to run some of the units thru an inverter.

Batteries  make some people very itchy! I think this will be mentioned in the movie also!

The reason for the "cryptic" 2KWH load on a 3amp fuse.. was just to indicate how truly weird this system is ! [ a passing observation amongst all the "phase talk"this AM]
It was something even I could get my Brain around!

 "2 KWH load on a 3 amp fuse"...... Its not possible but its what is happening .


Thanks for the ideas Steve ,and for all the other things you are doing,they are greatly appreciated!

Chet
   
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Chet -- good points, thanks.
Quote
2 KWH load on a 3 amp fuse"...... Its not possible but its what is happening .
I think you meant, "2 KW" not "2KWH" load.  And very interesting indeed -- the fuse provides a nice test.
 

 With regard to the OUR prize discussed earlier, I find this in the Conditions for the prize:

The device must be able to produce a continuous output power of 15W (minimum) over and above the total amount of power applied to the device as an input source of power.

  This does NOT specify that electrical power is needed for the output, so I take it that heat output (Q, as measured using the temperature rise in water, for example) would meet the condition.  Is this correct, .99?

I realize that all other conditions for the prize, including the open source provision, would apply.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Professor,

Electrical power (Watts) can be converted to energy (Joules=W*s), therefore since heat (temperature rise) can be converted to Joules, I think we are ok.

Feel free to change the required wording or incorporate the necessary equations for the conversions, and we'll go from there.

Regards,
.99
   
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OK
I have to call at 4.00 PM EST  USA [approx 1 1/2 hrs ]
I think we'll be ready?

THX
Chet
   
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Looks like its not ready yet............
I'll be trying again 5 AM EST

Chet
   
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Professor,

Electrical power (Watts) can be converted to energy (Joules=W*s), therefore since heat (temperature rise) can be converted to Joules, I think we are ok.

Feel free to change the required wording or incorporate the necessary equations for the conversions, and we'll go from there.

Regards,
.99


we should keep in mind that some of the heat parameters, like specific heat, might change with pressure, and actualy do if I remember correctly, so lot's of care should be excercised in defining the energy that went into heating up a liquid.  It's not as straight forward as computing electrical power.   I suspect that some of these sonic water heaters might work just because of this fact.  In the case of the Witts spherical heater,  I suspect the current pulse is timed to occur when a low pressure wave is impinging on the heating area or probe, and so it takes less heat energy to boil, but is that 100 deg C boiling?  or 90 deg C boiling?   Once I even saw boiling water FREEZ, in an experiment back in highschool that reduced the pressure around a vessel full of water at room temperature, and as the pressure droped the boiling started and cooled the liquid and at one point it just froze solid, bubles and all!  It was very impressive!

EM
   
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OK
I found Duncans post
It was his mentioning of reactive power that was Different

Duncan
Quote:


OK even with a pair of spoons and very careful adjustment I can get amazing results, But what are we tuning to?
I have an Idea sort of “roughed out” which I'd like to float It starts with considering a radio system.
Or even a TV system I'm sure most of your have played about with CB radio for instance. At first it would seem to have nothing to do with the electric grid but of course all the same bits are in place a/ the Transmitter (which is analogous of the generator) b/The cable feeding the antenna (which is analogous of the grid itself c/The antenna Itself which is analogous of our equipment receiving the power (heater,motor whatever) and lastly the antenna launches the signal into the Aether this is analogous to how you perceive the energy heat,movement,light whatever.
If you have ever connected a TV or one of these CB things you will find that Coaxial cable is the stuff to use, you will also find that it has a “Characteristic Impedance” typically 75 ohm and some times 50 ohm but I guess by design it can be anything. Our electric grid also has a “Characteristic impedance” and so I think a little thought on the matter is in order.
This coax and 75 ohms where would you measure it with your meter? The answer is if course you cant.
The Transmitter is by design is manufactured to transfer 100% of its power at a certain frequency into an Impedance of 75 ohms. The coax in turn delivers the power to the Antenna which again by design has a Impedance designed to be 75 ohm and it in turn is physically made to launch your power onto the Aether. It is a little bit like pass the parcel but each of the four people involved has to be suited to handle the load and pass it to the next guy.
and so what happens if the transmitter changes frequency ? Well each transmitter has one of these
http://www.mds975.co.uk/Images/radios/atu09.jpg
It can be adjusted to “fool” the transmitter into seeing 75 ohms and so give you the adjustment required to put everything “bang on tune”
If things are not On tune some most unpleasant things occur,if they are for instance 100% out of tune all the power from the transmitter is reflected straight back like throwing a ball against a wall and normally blows up the transmitter.
If you get it 75% tuned most of the power goes out onto the Aether 25% is forced to stay on the coax if fact if memory serves they refer to it a “a standing wave” In practice you can actually go along the coax with a neon or small fluorescent tube and it will light and dim as you follow this wasted power and you will actually feel hot spots on the coax..
Radio Amateurs go to inordinate lengths to reduce standing waves because they cause what they refer to as “Spurious emissions” that is they transmit bursts of power that can appear anywhere.
I'm sure at some stage you have heard police or Taxi drivers or CB operators crashing through onto your phone or TV on a frequency far away from where they should be . That is because of this “evil twin” of the sine wave.
Now it so happens that “The grid” is exactly the same sort of system. Vastly different powers and currents and frequencies involved but essentially the same.
Electrical engineers such as myself are taught exactly the same subject as radio engineers but in an entirely different fashion, with different terms and different units and Its extremely difficult to marry the two. And so we end up with a situation where allied trades are discussing the same subject but not able to understand each other.
There is for instance a subtle 90deg phase shift introduced in the “radio transmission” teaching of things to sort of pat things into shape a bit Its not really required in electrical engineering so its just “omitted” The maths route is really a “bear” of a line to go down BUT … Eric Dollard is one of the few that is obviously well versed in both fields and has noticed the anomalies and been after them like a terrier after a rat his writing is recommended (gives me head ache) so I can only take small bites.
It does become very clear that big lumps are missing or altered in such a way that the cap is forced to fit the head.
So much for a extremely hashed version of a radio transmission what of our grid? It has a “Transmitter” a generator in fact lots of them joined together they will have a maximum power transfer impedance (just like the CB radio) although Its going to be very low, Its also going to have lots of this evil twin the standing wave sitting solidly on the grid except they call it re-active power.
Much like the spurious radio signals it arrives any were with full power unannounced.
It blows up transformers, It loves eating semi-conductors, Its probably responsible for spontaneous combustion. It generates heat on the grid, the supply people have to put in much bigger cables to cater for reactive power,standing wave, watt-less component (call it what you will)
And to me It rather looks like some of this worthless expensive watt-less component is being “tuned “ and used to heat water,. With total respect to Mr C just to get a little closer P = VI is what the standard house meter is reading.
Power =VI cosφ
is what a typical factory meter would be reading in order to encourage Power factor correction. Power factor correction doesn't really cure the problem anyway it simply throws it back on the grid. And ups the Ante
these are all known and accepted … BUT and its a big BUT what if As I am starting to suspect we are tuning to the reactive watt less component that the power companies hate and turning it into heat. And so doing them a great kindness. Do you think we could heat our homes and send them a bill for removing the watt-less component?
Yeh I'm sure they'd be highly delighted. It would be very interesting to see one of these heaters that is working really well disconnected from the grid and connected instead to a battery and a true sine wave inverter.
A/ It would remove the shock hazard (to a certain extent)
B/ It prove/dis prove the tuning to a specific frequency
C/ It would give direct current volts amps reading
D/If it does what I suspect we can all buy and use the same inverter

What I suspect it will do …. Not having access to the spurious emissions, reactive power,wattless component call it what you will (a rose by any other name) It will draw most of the power which it is tuned to receive
from the Aether In the same fashion as all these machines
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...2520floyyd.png

New Free Energy by George Mitchell - YouTube

ThaneCHeins's Channel - YouTube

ThaneCHeins's Channel - YouTube

F.M.CHALKALIS ENERGY MULTIPLIER - YouTube

This absolutely free un patentable god given energy flooding vertically into these machines and only visible as it mixes with the ambient light frequencies is what I suspect is heating the water although we of course can't see the interaction.
It simply remains to confirm in tests I know from calculation that even with my crude set up I am at least “very efficient” To make a tuner such as this http://www.rocketradio.co.uk/ekmps/s...mhz-1010-p.jpg
is to a Transmitter antenna for our heater and the grid connection is an ambition, but perhaps an inverter we could all buy regardless of country and connect to a standard construct is also not a bad way to go, and the power utilities can be left to sort out their own life choking, planet strangling, "evil power" which this power of which we have been deprived for many years is in direct opposition to “in every respect.”.
I notice when I draw attention to the above links on other relevant threads they tend to DRY UP for some reason I hope that isn’t the case here!
spurious emissions Light tubes lite up under powerlines without plugs? EMF Cra - YouTube
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Whatever you can do,or dream you can,begin it.Bold
   
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 :D:D:D:D:D, movie and results, looking forward to that while I am still  :D:D:D:D:D .
   
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Feeling a little spunky are yah?
When you see the Movie [I haven't ] You will be saying its gotta be fake!
No way this is possible ETC ETC...........
  And that my Friend is why its here ....You probably will go loony.... {i hope not]....Or we will find out something else is causing it ? [at this point I would be very surprised].
Please don't take my posting from Duncan as any "endorsement" from this Inventor as how he thinks this works, The inventor here cannot believe what he sees with his own eyes?

I hope we find the same fascination  ...

Chet
MH
This is such a good exercise in self control.... You are doing so good!!
I know the Duncan Post put undue stress on your Grey cells ....I did not do that intentionally [old habits]
Very impressive
Thank you
I really think the movie will be ready in the AM ...He's covering many things on the phone ..if he puts that in the movie it will be a bit of a challenge for him to pull off!![time wise]

   
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:D:D:D:D:D, movie and results, looking forward to that while I am still  :D:D:D:D:D .

LOL   ;D

   
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Chet:

I hope the movie is not being made in lieu of documenting the procedures and showing the measurements and doing the calculations.  That would be unacceptable.  I hope you understand that.

This is now the third time I am asking you this:  Will this person be presenting the setup, the test procedures and the measurements and showing the COP 7 results in a posting?

MileHigh
   
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MH, I wouldn't hold my breath for any solid numbers we can analyze.   We'll probably get some, but not enough to matter.  But the presentation should be good, or rather entertaining,  with all the typical exotic theories to support the apparently overunity operation.   :-[


round and round we go.

           :D :D
    :D              :D
 :D                   :D
:D        ;D          :D
 :D                   :D
    :D              :D
           :D :D


[edit:  it's so hard to get this thing to be a circle:   >:(
   
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