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Author Topic: Serbian Professor Savic Sonic water heater replication COP 12  (Read 295715 times)
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MH
Yes Yes And Yes
There are No "No's"
All Yes's

I believe we will be pleasantly surprised !!
Patience is a virtue I have problems with.........[yeah I know.... I hide it pretty good]
This is good therapy for me too!

@Em
AS far as Theories?
I don't think so....As far as reproducible results at will  ....No Sweat!!
How its Done no problem!! Why it do what it Do??
Not really important at this juncture .
I hope you will be planning to be a part of this also ,Steve feels this way Too!
Thx
Chet
   
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Sorry can't help myself

repost from Energetic

quantumuppercut  

Let's say we have a ball and drop it from height H, the ball bounce back to the same height, the system is purely reactive. If the ball bounce back lower, there is some reactive, and if the ball doesn't bounce back, it's purely "resistive" in a sense.

The boiler is resistive if we treat the water as a resistive load. If there is reactive going on, then the system must contain inductance/capacitance. One can see the boiler as a coil.

It might be induction heating. If so, you're not alone. Induction heating is from magnetic energy. Now could it be that magnetic energy is free...

http://pesn.com/2011/10/05/9501927_Steorn_CEO_Posts_Overunity_Heater_Video/

"...The purpose of the test is to determine if the coil fed with a quantity of AC power, can produce more heat than the same coil fed with the same quantity of DC power. In the paper, the formula needed to calculate the total AC power is presented. The AC input and DC input is configured to be as identical as possible. Actually, the power input during the AC run was .9 (point nine) watts, and in the DC run it was 1 (one) watt. The fact that the input power during the AC run was slightly less than in the DC run actually biases the test against the AC run. This makes the results of the test even more significant.

In the first test, 1 watt of DC power is fed into the coil wound around the nickel core. The temperature of the coil increases until it reaches an equilibrium point of 36.1 degrees. This is the point at which the power lost by the coil via heat dissipation matches the electrical input power. Even if the input power stayed on for hours longer, the temperature of the coil would not increase above this temperature.

In the second test, .9 watts is fed into the same coil wound around the same exact nickel core. Obviously, this test took place a period of time after the first one, after the temperature of the coil has dropped back to its original value. The result of AC being fed into the coil is that it rises to an equilibrium temperature of 41.1 degrees. This means that in the AC test, the temperature of the coil reached a temperature five degrees higher than in the DC test.

The higher equilibrium temperature obtained when the coil was powered with AC, indicates an anomalous gain of energy. The gain of energy is unexplainable, because the input power in both tests were almost identical -- actually slightly less when AC was utilized. As the paper continues, the author indicates that resistive heating cannot be the case for the increased temperature in the AC test run..

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The higher equilibrium temperature obtained when the coil was powered with AC, indicates an anomalous gain of energy.


Objection your honor!      ;D    The defense wishes to refute these outlandish claims.      :D


On the surface it seems logical, same power input but higher temperature, but when you "dig" into the details, you discover other phenomena responsable for the observables.   Temperature rise is governed by heat flux and thermal resistance of materials, if you don't have lot's of survace to carry the heat away you get a higher temperature that drives more heat and thus reaches an equilibrium at a higher temperature level.     In a core,  AC fields produce hysterisis losses, so the power is dissipated differently then with DC excitation.    That's one thing to keep in mind.  the other is, measuring the power that goes in is a bit more tricky.   With DC one measures the voltage and current MAGNITUDES only, but with AC we need MAGNITUDE and PHASE.   If these are not measured acurately then we'll get erroneous results.

For example,  look at poor Lawrence Tesung,    carring on about his jewel thief circuit day after day and making the same mistake in calculating power which we all spoted long ago.   How sad.

EM
   
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Chet:

Great to hear that the data will be forthcoming also.

EM:

I think that you hit the nail on the head.  The AC excitation would induce eddy currents inside the nickel core, a.k.a. hysteresis losses.  That means you have a heat engine inside the nickel core itself and not just from hot wires on the surface.  That interior heat engine has a higher thermal resistance to the outside world such that the overall assembly would have a slightly higher thermal resistance to the outside world with the AC excitation.  Hence the outside surface of the nickel core would have a slightly higher thermal equilibrium temperature.  It's very subtle but I think that explains it.

Where the Steorn boys are "losing it" is that the device would defiantly not have exactly the same temperature for the wires vs. the nickel core, that's impossible, the wires will be hotter.  When you switch to AC excitation, the wires are just slightly less hot because the heat engine inside the nickel core is "stealing" power dissipation from the wires.

Note that although the surface temperatures for the two different types of excitation would be slightly different, the actual amount of IR and thermal convection heat power emanating from the device for the two excitations would check out.  In other words, the amount of actual heat wattage being produced by each type of electrical excitation would still be commensurate with the electrical energy being provided to each device.  All that you would need to do would be to run both devices in an insulated water bath for a certain amount of time and let the water and the device reach the same temperature.  When you did that and crunched the numbers and double-checked that with the two types of electrical excitation, everything should check out.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Assuming that we are correct, how come the "Steorn boyz," who are supposed to be "experts" at all this stuff, did not get this?  The bottom line is that their credibility is zero and has been for a long time and nobody took any notice of Sean's claim.  I think Sean was booted out of the company a few months ago also.

Where can I get my buttered popcorn?  lol

MileHigh
   
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A.C. power provides free energy?

Wow! My house must be running on free energy. How do I rewire my car to only use A.C. ?

The concession stand is behind you and down the hall. Don't pay the extra buck for the butter. It is only peanut oil anyway.

Eddy currents only when A.C. is used .... perfectly logical  :)  Steorn didn't get that? That is sad  :'(
   
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OK
Life gets in the way sometimes [most times actually] ,Raising a family and running a business ..... and making movies !
Hard to juggle !
 Lots of film in the can ,He says its  "A good day to Finish Up" [filming]  So I'm calling back in 10 hrs .

Gotta go back to work here..........

Chet


   
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Time mistake not 10 hrs
3 PM EST USA

Professor Savic mailed this to me this AM,I know that none of this would be happening if it weren't for his original input and schematics
The inventor of this device knows that also ....although he feels he may be doing the same thing but in a different way! [much easier at many levels]
Irregardless ...he wants the professor to benefit also from this ! [however that may be?]

 Savic to me

90% of vacuum is composed from neutrinos.
Neutrinos travel faster than light. One particle pushes the other particle like a sound wave and that is why it is tuned as musical instrument.
When neutrino strikes the crystal bar of metal, it pushes out the last electron on orbital.
Electron that was pushed out, gets lost out of this dimension in quantum field for a moment and when it returns, by collapsing it collects 7 times more energy compared to what he had.
That energy is captured by resonance at 1/4 of wave length and that is half diameter of half sphere and of sphere or of sonic boiler cylinder.
That is pure electricity and it is condensed in sphere, half sphere or cylinder.
That electricity is passed through a resistor, resistor being water which in return creates heat.
Molecules of water resonate and vibrate at same wave length and transmit their energy to a radiator who by resonance transfers it to the air and then our body soaks that energy through the air and we feel warmth.

Summary:
Sonic boiler catches high frequency waves (microwaves) from a system of high frequency with its shape and dimension, then converts lower frequency into heat through electrical resistance of water.
Sonic boiler uses network electricity as exciting frequency and energy of quantum field which is condensed in ball of heater (this part here "ball of heater" I believe it is sphere of heater, do notice that is my understanding and word to word translation is ball of heater) and that is why it has COP >1

Regards,

Prof.Savic

------------------------------------
MH
Please don't comment we know how you feel about this [Spock Hugging his girlfriend pic]
   
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@ ALL
Several Vids in the can!
Posting will be to the "Tube" Comments disabled.

This Gentleman is putting in a lot of time and effort  ...I think there will be a generator run in the mix also?[unit running on a genset].

I don't particularly care how long he takes .Its a promise and its coming!

I do expect something in the next few hours ....
Thx
Chet
   
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Let's look at some experimental evidence about neutrino hit rates for water taken from the Sudbury Neutrino Observatory (SNO).



Quote from this document:  http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/sno/press_release/SNOBackgrounderNov15f.pdf

Quote
The SNO detector consists of 1000 tonnes of ultra-pure heavy water enclosed in a 12-meter diameter
acrylic plastic vessel, which in turn is surrounded by ultra-pure ordinary water in a giant 22-meter
diameter by 34-meter high cavity. Outside the acrylic vessel is a 17-meter diameter geodesic sphere
containing 9,456 light sensors or photomultiplier tubes, which detect tiny flashes of light emitted as
neutrinos are stopped or scattered in the heavy water. The flashes are recorded and analyzed to extract
information about the neutrinos causing them. At a detection rate on the order of 10 per day, many days
of operation are required to provide sufficient data for a complete analysis. The laboratory includes
electronics and computer facilities, a control room, and water purification systems for both heavy and
regular water.

Let's ignore the difference between heavy water and regular water in order to simplify the calculation.  Let's try to estimate the neutrino hit frequency for one liter of regular water.

Hit frequency for one liter = 10 hits/day * 1/(1000 * 1000) = 0.00001 hits/day

That's an average of one hit per 100,000 days or an average of one hit every 273.78 years for a container holding one liter of water.  Since regular water is less of a "target" than heavy water you assume the average hit rate is even slower than that.

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2012-01-11, 02:27:39 by MileHigh »
   
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Assume Huh?
That word always scares me
Any Hoo
I Haven't watched this movie yet [I will in another hour.. still working]

I believe this may be the Japanese fellow with similar Neutrino views ? {not sure]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EB-jWfzkz_E
THX
Chet
   
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Chet, so what MH is saying is that nutrino hits are very rare and far between,  so  these guys who boil water should look for an alternate theory to explain their results, because it aint' nutrinos.

EM
   
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EM Thanks,
I have to say ...we will be fetching for explanations in a few days!

Maybe Neutrinos Can't swim? [scared of water?]

Have a good night..........
Chet
PS
Just watched that movie
Spherical Capacitors........... Starts at the 2.56 mark !
I wonder if the Witts Heater could be a Spherical capacitor?
"Spherics"??
« Last Edit: 2012-01-11, 03:16:19 by ramset »
   
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Chet, so what MH is saying is that nutrino hits are very rare and far between,  so  these guys who boil water should look for an alternate theory to explain their results, because it aint' nutrinos.

EM

Exactly -- I said as much over at EF also.
   
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Quote
Savic to me

90% of vacuum is composed from neutrinos.
Neutrinos travel faster than light. One particle pushes the other particle like a sound wave and that is why it is tuned as musical instrument.
When neutrino strikes the crystal bar of metal, it pushes out the last electron on orbital.
Electron that was pushed out, gets lost out of this dimension in quantum field for a moment and when it returns, by collapsing it collects 7 times more energy compared to what he had.
That energy is captured by resonance at 1/4 of wave length and that is half diameter of half sphere and of sphere or of sonic boiler cylinder.
That is pure electricity and it is condensed in sphere, half sphere or cylinder.
That electricity is passed through a resistor, resistor being water which in return creates heat.
Molecules of water resonate and vibrate at same wave length and transmit their energy to a radiator who by resonance transfers it to the air and then our body soaks that energy through the air and we feel warmth.

Summary:
Sonic boiler catches high frequency waves (microwaves) from a system of high frequency with its shape and dimension, then converts lower frequency into heat through electrical resistance of water.
Sonic boiler uses network electricity as exciting frequency and energy of quantum field which is condensed in ball of heater (this part here "ball of heater" I believe it is sphere of heater, do notice that is my understanding and word to word translation is ball of heater) and that is why it has COP >1

Short and to the point: Absolute utter drivel. Just the mindless ramblings of a half-wit!


Chet, so what MH is saying is that nutrino hits are very rare and far between,  so  these guys who boil water should look for an alternate theory to explain their results, because it aint' nutrinos.

EM

Now here's the thing, Chet. If these guys seriously consider neutrinos to be responsible for heating up the water, what does this tell us about them? I know exactly what it tells me... and the word 'genius' would not be in my description of them!

I mean, how many times does one or the other of us have to elaborate on why the neutrino theory is absolute nonsense? And given the hard evidence that supports why neutrinos are not responsible, why is no-one challenging the sanity of Savic... and whoever?  ???

It's like waiting for the start of latest Spielburg blockbuster... but I just know this video is going to turn out to be an almighty box office flop... :'(

   
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Mags:

What about your theory for heating water with some sort of a circuit?  If you changed your mind then no problem.

MileHigh
   
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Chet:

We are overdue on the movies.  Any news?

I will state it again:  The movies are secondary.  The presentation of the results and all that goes with it is the most important thing.  I hope that will be forthcoming but if you get burned and "Mr. COP 7" doesn't deliver then let us know.  You don't need to sugarcoat anything.

PhysicsProf stood his ground against Slovenia's attempts at thought control about the neutrino issue.  That's very good, an injection of reality into the EF thread can only help, not hurt.

Duncan's posting about reactive power was absolute utter drivel.  Enough said.

MileHigh
   
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PhysicsProf stood his ground against Slovenia's attempts at thought control about the neutrino issue.  That's very good, an injection of reality into the EF thread can only help, not hurt.



MileHigh

Thanks, yes, on this we actually agree.

Note (on the same thread) that I have arranged to have one of Prof Savic's devices sent to a researcher in western Europe for testing/verification.   I learned today that Prof Savic has already sent the device (I paid the fees for this) -- and it is to his credit that he is willing to have another scientist check his claims. We should have results by the end of the month, assuming the device arrives safely which I expect.
   
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PhysicsProf:

Also assuming that this scientist in western Europe knows what he or she is doing and is setup to do the testing and can write up a proper report.  If everything is good and we get solid test results then Mr. Savic will be cornered and not be able to say "You didn't do a proper replication."  It should be interesting.

We have seen about 15 or 20 comments from Mr. Savic and even with the translation problems he sounds like your typical promoter of a far-fetched free energy scheme with no basis in reality.  If he is cornered he might disappear.

Meanwhile let's hope the "local" replicators can generate some data.  All of this bloody obsessing about how to physically build the thing and almost no action with respect to doing actual testing is just the same old story.  One can always hope.

MileHigh
   
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MH, I admire your patience and self-control, but above all I admire your ability to cling to the very slimest glimmer of hope, when in your heart you know you - as I do - exactly how this will turn out.   :(
   
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PhysicsProf:

Also assuming that this scientist in western Europe knows what he or she is doing and is setup to do the testing and can write up a proper report. If everything is good and we get solid test results then Mr. Savic will be cornered and not be able to say "You didn't do a proper replication."  It should be interesting.

We have seen about 15 or 20 comments from Mr. Savic and even with the translation problems he sounds like your typical promoter of a far-fetched free energy scheme with no basis in reality. If he is cornered he might disappear.
[snip]

MileHigh

What makes you so sure that, even with solid test results, Prof. "Savic will be cornered"?   How do you know he will?  I mean, the results may turn out to vindicate his claims.

I will not pre-judge the results one way or the other, but will wait to see the actual results, and the measurement methods used.  

Furthermore, after the first independent testing of Prof Savic's device is completed, another series of tests by another scientist is already planned.

  
   
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PhysicsProf:

This is a resistive heater which is a unity device.  You agree that it has nothing to do with neutrinos.  So what's left?  Resonance?

In the free energy realm, resonance is misunderstood and it's an idea that people can pin their hopes on.  It's basically a fetish.  People believe that somehow resonance creates energy out of nothing.  A big reason for that is that they see signal amplitudes increase at resonance and they erroneously equate that observation to the production of extra energy.  The people in the free energy cottage industry know this and so they exploit it.  This creates a feedback loop between the exploiters and the believers that goes round and round.  So resonance is a mirage, partly wishful thinking, partly manufactured.

All that you are left with is the hope it will work, and that's enough for lots of people.

There is nothing to pre-judge, there are just the facts.  Either you accept the understanding of what happens when electric current flows through a resistor or you don't.  The resistor in this case happens to be water, big deal.  The end terminals that connect to the water resistor might be shaped like spheres or cylinders that have natural mechanical resonance frequencies, big deal.

If a 50 or 60 Hz electrical excitation causes the terminals to mechanically resonate, all that really means is that you are getting a form of motor action from the applied electrical excitation.  That means that the motor will cause a small voltage drop as current flows through the water resistor.  Therefore if you get any mechanical resonance in the device, the small voltage drop associated with this will result in a small decrease in the current flow through the water resistor.

So if you accept the facts then there is no expectation of over unity.

If you don't accept the facts then you are arguing for some sort of entirely new physics that somehow has never been discovered, even through the resistive heating of fluids has been done in certain applications for decades if not longer.  This new physics is supposed to create energy out of nothingness.

There is just nothing there.  Of course what I say is not likely to change any personal opinions about this proposition!

The learning experience that one hopes for is that replicators actually prove all of this for themselves.  That would be so cool and it would be the real victory, although many people would not see it that way, but it would still be a victory.

MileHigh

P.S.:  Like many people I am still hoping that LENR turns out to be real.  Is Rossi real?  The warning flags are casting major doubt on him, but perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel.  Perhaps within five years we will know one way or the other.  And of course this is not free energy, but by the same token it has many parallels with free energy.
   
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PhysicsProf:

This is a resistive heater which is a unity device.  You agree that it has nothing to do with neutrinos.  So what's left?  ....

So if you accept the facts then there is no expectation of over unity.  ......

If you don't accept the facts then you are arguing for some sort of entirely new physics that somehow has never been discovered, ......

MileHigh

P.S.:  Like many people I am still hoping that LENR turns out to be real.  ..... perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel.  Perhaps within five years we will know one way or the other.  .....

Seems you answered your own question!  yes, perhaps it could be LENR, although that is not the only source of  "anomalous" energy I suppose.
 Perhaps this possibility will help you with an open mind as the data are forthcoming.
   
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I used to be an optimist, but time, experience (and Chet) changed all that, now I'm a realist.

MH, for all the nonsense theories and utter gibberish being posted, there is still the possibility of cavitation taking place in such a device if the design parameters and mechanics of said device allow for it.  That said, whether or not this would result in - or indeed explain - these alleged high COP figures, remains, of course, to be seen.

I think all this hangs on the results of the Physics Prof's testing, assuming that is, that it will be undertaken professionally and scientifically. I certainly would not trust anyone of the others playing with this to provide conclusive test results - most of them don't seem to know their arse from their head!  :)
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Professor,

Would it be possible to get the names and credentials of those who will be performing the testing?

Thanks,
.99
   
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@Milehigh
Quote
If you don't accept the facts then you are arguing for some sort of entirely new physics that somehow has never been discovered, even through the resistive heating of fluids has been done in certain applications for decades if not longer.  This new physics is supposed to create energy out of nothingness.

No, you are stating overly simplistic facts which are for the most part pointless, according to your line of thought the space shuttle is just a silly airplane, a nuclear reactor is a simple water heater and the universe just a bunch of silly rocks floating around in nothingness. Those are your facts and not those supported by real scientists who understand how complex even simple systems can be and why we cannot determine what will happen in every case. Do you know why it is next to impossible to accurately model this device even with the most powerful supercomputers on this planet? because there are too many variables, that is so many things can be effecting so many other things that the number of interactions becomes massive. As well I regularly work with some top of the line CFD modelling software and can tell you have no idea what your talking about, this device is a CFD/Electrodynamics nightmare.

Now let's look at the obvious, water is fluid and the energy is moving through a fluid subject to mechanical and electrodynamic effects relating to energy. I know in your opinion there is only current, voltage and resistance however this is not the case because the only thing that matters is energy or moreso energy state. Current, voltage and resistance are not energy they are variables and if at any point anywhere a condition changed these variable then all bets are off. For example maybe you can tell me exactly what happens in the realm of eletrodynamics when a low pressure region evolves due to mechanical forces and micro-bubbles form?. I will tell you what may happen, according to Faradays laws the charge density must increase because the charge has been displaced and obviously cannot remain in the bubble when conducting through water. We may also have an instance when the charge density increases to such an extent that the bubble does conduct then collapse, what then?. Oh but I forgot this is just a simple water resistor with some simple current flow through it, nothing could ever happen,lol.

I should note that I am not saying this works or not as nobody here knows however the only one making any sense would seem to be PhysicsProf -- "I will not pre-judge the results one way or the other, but will wait to see the actual results, and the measurement methods used".

Regards
AC
« Last Edit: 2012-01-13, 19:32:04 by allcanadian »


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Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger

“Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything.” George Bernard Shaw
   
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