OverUnity Research

Quote from: verpies on 2020.06.24, 12:01:52
Are you trying to improve this circuit or solve a flaw in it ?

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2020.07.01, 20:36:40
No it should work ok,
it depends on what you want to use it for. You are limited in frequency to by the TL494.

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2020.07.01, 20:36:40
the thing is has anyone got a device to do a useful task yet like getting a Ruslan or
Dally device to work yet?

Quote from: verpies on 2020.07.02, 17:28:23
So there is nothing for me to do with it.
Not me

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2020.07.05, 20:47:12
Verpies, What do you mean nothing to do with it?

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.03.29, 19:01:24
I hope this will help.
Use this information wisely.

Quote from: partzman on 2021.03.29, 19:33:27
Hi Vasik,

Did you transcribe the video and translate the schematics?  If so, many thanks!  O0

Regards,
Pm

Quote from: Chet K on 2021.03.29, 19:00:21
So you have a moderated bench here ?

Dusty....but nice ( big names in the headline ?)

Being the lowest denominator, I have a few questions..

( if I can grasp this ... all should be able to !

A schematic to start with ?( whats it all look like ?
There are a few schematic in this topic ... one of those or ?

Thx
Chet

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.06, 19:08:28
Hi Vasik,

thanks again for your post here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90101#msg90101

The RK.pdf contains a wealth of new (for me) information about the Ruslan setup in the video's and translated text.

It takes some time to go through it all, but due to your great work, i found some very nice gems already concerning tuning and construction.

The calculator (http://gorchilin.com/calculator/reactor?lang=en) seems to be not working and i guess one needs to get a payed subscription to get access to it, right?

Itsu

QuoteBut looking at the video at that time, he measures a yellow/green wire to be 3.2mm thick (look at the caliper), so not the 4.2mm. Is that just an example on how to measure, and not the actual wire he used?

Quotecoil windings separation: 4.25mm

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.07, 19:55:53
Using the calculator, i tried severall combinations of wire thickness, insulation thickness and length, but i never get below 2MHz intersection frequency, which is high for the kacher (typical between 1.3 and 1.7MHz).

And trying to match up wire outer diameter (wire thickness plus insulation) with a spaceless coil design always returns to about 3.xMhz intersection frequency, which is way to high.


I read that Stalker mentions this (page 55 bottom of PDF), and he recommends to go to 47M length as the bobbin thickness is thicker in Europe (4mm, mine is 3.5mm).
He was able to get an intersection frequency of 1.54Mhz, but i am unable to reach that low.

Looking further into this.

Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.08, 06:17:51
Itsu,
I listen that fragment again. He actually says that we don't need pay attention to the frequency, because it
is valid only for one layer coil. So only inductance and number of turns need to be taken from this calculator after matching turn-to-turn distance.
I guess 46 meters should be ok for your wire.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.08, 08:39:35
Vasik,   thanks, that helps.

So using the wire i have (outer dia 3.4mm, core dia 1.9mm), on my 3.5mm thick wall bobbin, i should have an inductance of 218uH and 274 turns using 46m.

Lets see if that works out that way.

Itsu

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.08, 18:16:37
   Of all the videos presented on the internet, Stalker, offers the best most descriptive videos ever shown to date. And, no, he does not ever show it self running. I now understand why. Yet, what he does show should not be a secret, and is not a secret, but still is not so easy to replicate properly, and with the same end results.
   Best of luck, itsu, I'll be watching you...very glad to see you checking this out, again.

   Vasik, best of luck to you, as well. Thanks for all your contributions, they have not been in vain.
I feel that this is still the most important device replication, and information gathering, to date.
   
    NickZ

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.09, 14:00:52
Here is the dialoge from one of the Stalker films

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.09, 13:43:31
  I had originally wound my grenade using new scrap house cables from previous house constructions. That is what I'm still using. It is 37.5 meters long, but is made using different thickness wires, to finish it off. I used thicker wire than what was recommended, and had a hard time making it all fit like its supposed to. I thought that thicker was better, but I can see that is not the case due to what you've mentioned about thickness issues.
    I always try to use materials that I have on hand, first, before buying anything. As I am not close to any electronics store, and have no car.
I can see now that that perhaps was not a good idea, to use different gauge wire, in this case.

Itsu, can you confirm which schematic you are following, and which video of Stalkers you are based on. I know that you're on the subject of the grenade now. But, is this below what you're looking into?

   Thanks,
               NickZ

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.10, 08:31:23
Vasik,

Yes, scope is grounded.
i see what you mean, so i will have to use a solid ground lead on the bottom side and probe the top side field.
Perhaps i can also use my current probe at the bottom side to measure the current there.
I was looking more at a visual aid like the fluro lamp or some neon bulbs or leds to show the standing wave, but on the other hand i don't want to stay to long with the long coil and continue to make a Grenade out of it and test that.

Itsu

QuotePS If I understood it right, Stalker said that those dim areas on fluorescent lamp should stop at wave resonance, but I haven't tried it, so can't comment on it.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.10, 12:09:05
Right, that is what i too understood from it, but up till now the rings keep moving

Quote
For compactness / tightness, i would go for my option, but i am not sure if the now unequal lenghts are a problem.

QuoteI think rings are moving because there is small mismatch between LC and wave resonance.
Usually if you want exact match you would remove or add few turns to the coil.

QuoteI think, like example picture shows (on the right) it is important to have equal lengths of first two layers (combined) and reverse layers (combined).

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.10, 14:10:52
   What I did, was to place and extend the whole 37.5 meter grenade line on the ground. Then fold that into two equally sized parts, and I marked it there. Then take that, and fold it in half, to obtain the other two coils sizes. And wind it like as shown in the Ruslan diagrams, to get to those points, regardless of the exact same number of turns. I don't know if I can explain it well, nor if I can even remember it well, as it's been a while.  I hope that is correct.  IF not, please let me know.
   So, is the goal here to have the LC resonance point match the frequency of the highest or best wave resonant point? Or a harmonic of it...?

    Did you say that Stalker only needed to make 25 grenades to get one that finally works? That is encouraging...

   NickZ

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.10, 15:27:41
Itsu,

You found now both resonances  O0
What is the second frequency ?

If you move one turn coil (connected to signal generator) 5-10cm right, so there will be better coupling, may be it became more stable. But in general, this is high frequency tech, it always influenced by everything, unless placed inside shielding.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.10, 15:35:59
This 2th frequency is 2.63Mhz.

Moving the single FG coil 5cm or so increases the coupling and i got better signals indeed.

Itsu

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.10, 15:33:16
  I added and edited my last post. Please check it.
Looks like you answered, as I was posting about "Spacial Resonance". Which the coils may need to be tuned to, first.
Thanks for your answer.
   I'm glad that Vasik is here, in case we get the wrong picture. But, it seams that first we need to tune in and find that best spacial resonant point.
That point can vary from one area to another. And is probably why Akula could not get his rig to work in Germany.
Otherwise we may do everything right, and still get it wrong. Or not?

   NickZ

QuoteIt is possible to build systems which are not require grounding.
I would think about this device as a toy, just to get familiar with technology and ideas.

BTW Please be very careful using water pipes as a grounding. As immediate danger - somebody can get electric shock in a surprise place and in long run, they will corrode.
Really bad idea.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.10, 17:15:44
It is possible to build systems which are not require grounding.
I would think about this device as a toy, just to get familiar with technology and ideas.

BTW Please be very careful using water pipes as a grounding. As immediate danger - somebody can get electric shock in a surprise place and in long run, they will corrode.
Really bad idea.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.11, 13:59:11

   It may be possible to build something that works without an earth ground line. But, I have not seen that to be the case, in higher output systems.
The induction circuit does not shock, at all. But, the combination with the Kacher is what causes there to be shocks.
Our water lines are made of PVC, here. So... no shocks, and no rust. Nor can they be used as ground lines.
  It's just that having a 40m ground line, may not be possible, for some folks. And I don't know if it's ok to bury them, or not. But, without an earth ground for these types of contraptions, we may be pissing into the wind.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.11, 15:38:46
Hi Nick,

I not sure where "40m ground line" comes from ? In my understanding Sergey says that length of wire from the device to the point where grounding located (some metallic thing buried) should not be very long, he says he has 25m long cable, but I understood it that it 25m of cable mostly inside house coming to the lab.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.11, 16:18:16
   And did Sergey show it self running, using a short ground line? In any case 25 meter is still pretty long.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.11, 20:57:37
Hey guys,

Might anyone know why these coils are called "Grenades" and "Catchers" etc?

Thanks.

Quote from: partzman on 2021.04.11, 23:15:13
The "grenade" I'm not sure other than it resembles and early explosive grenade device.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.11, 20:57:37
Hey guys,

Might anyone know why these coils are called "Grenades" and "Catchers" etc?

Thanks.

QuoteHi Itsu,

Nice looking coil :)

Please check that the piece of plastic you use as a base for the coil does not affect resonance.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.12, 20:19:16

Hi Vasik,
thats a piece of Brussels crystal glass and no, it does not affect resonance, in fact there is much less interaction on the grenade resonance frequency by hand etc. as with the long coil.

Below video shows the use of the pulse amp. in trying to find the standing wave frequency.
It seems its the same (1.16MHz) or very close as the LC resonance (makes me wonder if that is really the case).

The neon bulb lights up fine at the hot end only, and the faint fluro lamp rings can be adjusted from running to stationary (and make them run again when approaching with a hand).

Video here:  https://youtu.be/egfmx9Jr7hg

Itsu

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.13, 01:17:17
Vasik,

How close is this current project to Kapanadze's and those that followed?

Are you currently working on this as well? At what stage are you at with it?

Do you remember the young man SR193? There is a thread here on him. He seemed to replicate the Kapanadze device, but never revealed his schematic as far as I know.

Is a spark gap required for the device you guys are working on here, the Dally etc. device?

Quote
How close is this current project to Kapanadze's and those that followed?

Quote
Are you currently working on this as well? At what stage are you at with it?

Quote
Is a spark gap required for the device you guys are working on here, the Dally etc. device?

Quote
Do you remember the young man SR193?

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.13, 04:20:23
Hi Itsu,

Very nice, so you have LC and wave resonance very close.
I think you could get better match if you rearrange reverse turns a little and get closer to original inductance.
But I not sure if it needed now. Probably its ok for first try.
Now you can check coil response with specter analyzer and select frequencies for push-pull and antenna.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.13, 08:17:00
I don't think Stalker had any info on that process as far as i remember.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.13, 04:27:34
I am trying build slightly simpler device. RuslanK device is more advanced and require more effort to replicate (tune).

Quote
No. No spark gap required but it can be used for simplification.

Quote
Yes, I remember SR193. There are several schematic variants of SR193 can be found in the internet.
They have some inaccuracies, but you can easily fix them if you understand the principle.
SR193 is simple device with spark gap used for Tesla-like coil excitation.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.13, 12:46:17
So you are not working on the same one Itsu is?

Quote
If it is possible to do this in a simpler way, there may be much interest here to follow along with you. Are you willing to share?

Quote
What part does the spark gap play then, does it provide for a high frequency switching action? What part does it replace compared to the Dally version being worked on here?

Quote
I haven't found any schematics myself, and the principle of operation would be important to know. Could you give a brief summary?
Thanks.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.13, 15:00:23
   Vasik:
   Can you explain the difference between a "gradient coil", compared to a normal or regular type of coil?

    NickZ

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.13, 16:05:32
Hi Pm,

This is typical one transistor Tesla coil, everyone call it kacher nowadays.
It is simple and have very interesting properties e.g. it is automatically maintain frequency.
I am attaching schematic from Stalker with some practical details.
   Vasik


   This was the original Ruslan "kacher circuit" that I had also built up, to test the device. And so did Geofusion, as well.
It was also replicated by Stalker, and was later also replicated by the late Adrian, who had shown it self running. Possibly to his demise.

   muDped:  Thanks for the reenforcement of the previous OU ideas. Regardless of the military aspect, this is all new to most folks

   NickZ

QuoteThis is typical one transistor Tesla coil, everyone call it kacher nowadays.
It is simple and have very interesting properties e.g. it is automatically maintain frequency.
I am attaching schematic from Stalker with some practical details.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.13, 08:46:56
Itsu,

It was, it is in separate document, see attachment here
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90634#msg90634

There is also simple example from Alexeev, but I don't have translation for it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7h1G_dvOo&list=PLK7gxeQv5qT44ZM5TVnBW534ogPJnrXjg&index=11
Summary: use one of frequencies where you see "reverberance"

Regards,
Vasik

QuoteHere another tuning variant from Alexeev
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHzhZVFBNf8

Here he use generator based on CD4093, frequency close to 100Khz

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.13, 20:40:11
Vasik,
thanks, i followed the gct.pdf and got similar FFT signals on the scope, but my first resonance frequency is much lower, 622KHz.
Both coil leads are connected to ground, 3 turns from the FG to the cold end, and 20Vpp sine wave.
I cannot get the sniffer coil with 2 anti-parallel leds to light up at this low 622KHz frequency, only at a higher peak at 2.2MHz it lights up, but not across the whole coil, only at 2 points, so i think i lack some power.
I will study the other video's to see if it (4093 @ 100KHz) is a better method, but i don't see where he puts his SA / scope leads yet.
Video here:  https://youtu.be/vykb0XXSQe4
Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.14, 05:14:54
Itsu,

I guess that 612Khz is a half of 1,12Mhz you saw earlier.
So why frequency is lower - we use thiner wire (1.9, not 2.5) and because of this coil needs to be longer (for resonances matching).
If you have 2.5mm wire, you could try make new coil with it or you can try continue with this coil.
You will need Tesla coil with 46m of 0.65mm wire and it can be tuned to 1.12Mhz (approx. 2 x 612)
and push pull frequency could be 612/30 = 20.4Khz.
That 25Mhz frequency you mentioned in the video should be used for antenna coil resonance.
If we lucky it will work with this coil :)
I will watch video about tuning one more time, may be there is something I didn't notice.

Regards,
Vasik

QuoteI guess that 612Khz is a half of 1,12Mhz you saw earlier.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.14, 08:29:34
Some points about tuning after watching video again:
- length of ground wire need to be tuned to max amplitude in gradient coil
- while testing specter, scope is connected, not just probe placed into proximity of the coil, not sure if it makes any difference
- Tesla coil should be tuned close to gradient coil frequency, so not sure if 2x is ok

Sorry, not much help at this point from me.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.14, 08:39:30

- length of ground wire need to be tuned to max amplitude in gradient coil
Makes sense as it is part of the circuit, question is roughly how long.

- while testing specter, scope is connected, not just probe placed into proximity of the coil, not sure if it makes any difference
Spectrum analyser will load down (50 Ohm) the circuit much more, so needs carefull positioning.

- Tesla coil should be tuned close to gradient coil frequency, so not sure if 2x is ok
So in my case the 622KHz, which will be a much longer (~36cm) coil.


Great help, thanks   Itsu

Quote
- length of ground wire need to be tuned to max amplitude in gradient coil
Makes sense as it is part of the circuit, question is roughly how long.

Quote
- while testing specter, scope is connected, not just probe placed into proximity of the coil, not sure if it makes any difference
Spectrum analyser will load down (50 Ohm) the circuit much more, so needs carefull positioning.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.14, 12:01:56
Concerning the 2 peaks of the sniffer leds at 2.120Mhz inside the (grounded at both sides) Grenade coil, i was wondering If that could be the 3th subharmonic of the full wave frequency of the 47m long wire.

Full wave on a 47m wire calculates (https://www.everythingrf.com/rf-calculators/wavelength-to-frequency) to be 6.378MHz, so divided by 3 is 2.126MHz.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.13, 14:02:55
To understand how these systems works please check
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=361.msg90198#msg90198

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.14, 12:30:40
I don't have time to read through the plethora of information, unfortunately (I'm busy with my own projects, and a project here). I was hoping and assumed anyone working on this technology for years would be able to summarize the operation in a couple short paragraphs. Well, that's what I would do if asked.
:)

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.14, 14:46:41
Reducing the layer 6 coil turns from 16 to 13 reduces the total inductance from 232uH to 215uH, but leaving an extra 90cm of connection lead at the hot end.
The FFT test however does not seem to be influenced much, still first peak at 612KHz.
Removing the whole layer 6 (so long extra lead), i get 164uH, but further removing turns from layer 5 also further reduces the inductance.
After changing the layers 5/6 from 16/16 turns, to 18/15 i again end up with 232uH @ 100KHz.
So not sure how to reduce the overall inductance while maintaining the 47m length.
I will further fiddle around with the layers 5/6 relationship.
Itsu

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.14, 15:07:34
   My grenade frequency is around 15KHz.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.14, 15:32:04
Itsu,

I think if moving turns on 4/5/6 layers closer to the middle of the coil does not help
you need to add turns to 3rd layer (first reverse layer)

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.14, 12:36:58
Well, if 8 pages mostly with pictures is too long... I am sorry, can't make it shorter :)

If I say "moving charges without using magnetic field" probably does not explain much.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.14, 17:53:14
Your statement summarizes part of what is written in the document. btw, who is the author?

At any rate, I didn't find the document all that enlightening, and seemed speculative.

Cheers.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.14, 17:55:40
Itsu,

one more radical thing you can try if you like - rewind whole coil like this, it is a "version 2" winding
actually recommenced by Sergey Stalker (version 1 I think was Alexeev's version).

Difference is that after each layer you return back, so all layer winded in same direction (e.g. left to right)

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: partzman on 2021.04.14, 19:29:56
Vasik,

I have never attempted a replication of these devices utilizing the "grenade" type of coil assembly but it seems to me that Alexeev's version would provide all boost between the various windings that are all wound in the same direction.  There would of course be different coupling factors between the windings but if the grenade as Itsu is replicating has some boost, some buck windings, isn't this necessary to match LC with wavelength?

Is the LC of the grenade self resonance?

regards,
Pm

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.14, 17:55:40
Itsu,

one more radical thing you can try if you like - rewind whole coil like this, it is a "version 2" winding
actually recommenced by Sergey Stalker (version 1 I think was Alexeev's version).

Difference is that after each layer you return back, so all layer winded in same direction (e.g. left to right)

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.14, 20:40:08
Vasik,
yes i had seen that option in one of the video's, i will keep it in mind.

For the time being i have added some more turns to layer 3 and divided the rest of the layers equally, and found the overall inductance now to be 210uH, so 7uH lower as when it was a single long coil (217uH) and 22uH lower as before (232uH).

But the FFT display still shows same 612KHz as first peak.
Will try tomorrow to even get closer to the 217uH @ 100KHz.

Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.15, 04:57:42
Itsu,

so this 612K seems to be wave resonance and you will have to use shorter wire to get it higher.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.15, 08:26:47
Vasik,   
yes, makes sense, but i understood that Stalkers Grenade wire length was 45m, but i will reread that part.
Anyway, then the calculator used to match the LC resonance and standing wave frequencies is not accurate when coiled up as a Grenade, see my coil calculation below.
Itsu

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.15, 09:11:23
Vasic Hi No i don't want to re wind it, it's museum piece  ;D

Any way Witch Sergey device do you mean Stalker or Alexis ?

Are you infarct referring to the Akula Ruslan thing on page 5 ? It's really important to keep to Tesla base 3 or 9
frequency as Mup0head quite rightly quotes some frequencies are lethal, we tried one frequency in the double
Hz frequency and 2 of the guys were doubled up in agony and couldn't turn the dam thing off easily.

Regards SIL

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.15, 09:11:23
Vasic Hi No i don't want to re wind it, it's museum piece  ;D

Any way Witch Sergey device do you mean Stalker or Alexis ?

Are you infarct referring to the Akula Ruslan thing on page 5 ? It's really important to keep to Tesla base 3 or 9
frequency as Mup0head quite rightly quotes some frequencies are lethal, we tried one frequency in the double
Hz frequency and 2 of the guys were doubled up in agony and couldn't turn the dam thing off easily.

Regards SIL

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.15, 13:24:27
Military stuff, too much like organised cayouse for me.

do you mean this build ?

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.15, 14:08:38
What is supposed to happen when the transmission line resonance intersects the LC resonance ?

QuoteYou will need Tesla coil with 46m of 0.65mm wire and it can be tuned to 612KHz
and push pull frequency could be 612/30 = 20.4Khz.
That 25Mhz frequency you mentioned in the video should be used for antenna coil resonance.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.15, 14:54:39
I have maximized the layer 3 number of turns as to come as close to the 217uH as possible which resulted in an overall inductance of 225uH @ 100KHz.

FFT test still shows 612KHz as 1st peak when both ends shorted/grounded, or even when only shorted (not grounded).

Guess it has to do for now.
So i will continue with "the inductor" and:

Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.15, 16:02:20
Itsu,

just out of curiosity have you tried FFT without shorting coil ? Does it make any difference ?

Vasik

Quote from: Centraflow on 2021.04.15, 17:47:09
Hi Itsu

I do it like this on my toroids, it is very simple when you have a good SG and scope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjbK4LsOQRk

Regards

Mike 8)

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.15, 19:26:18
Mike,

thanks for the heads up and video, but we have measured the LC resonance of the coil in severall ways including the ringing methode in your video.

What we are after now is to measure/visualize the combination of LC and standing wave (transmission line) resonance.


Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.15, 18:36:22
Itsu,

Thanks for the test.
I was browsing youtube and by accident found another video about gradient coil, may be you find it interesting (see attached document).

Vasik

PS found Stalker's coil design (on yandex disk), looks same as in the video.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.15, 19:38:10
Vasik,

thanks for the additional video's/text, i measured my coil with my laser temp. meter, but no difference in the coil and/or compared to surroundings (19°C).

What i miss in the video's is where the probes are attached to show this 100% modulated (dancing wave) signal.

I suspect it is an artifact of the used scope / setup as i never am able to create such modulated (beat) signal (of course, it could be my grenade is not working properly yet).

What i do notice is that the used Grenades all have asymmetrical layers which i do not have.
Perhaps i need to use that too (same length/layer, not same number of turns/layer).

Yes, that ground influence is huge, so many parameters to take into account  :D

Itsu

Quote from: Centraflow on 2021.04.15, 19:40:56
Quick thought,

Your standing wave will be a % or another way ratio, of your forward wave as you know, or are you trying to measure a moving wave in reference to the original wave.

I will explain tomorrow when I'm fresh ;D

Regards

Mike 8)

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.15, 14:22:47
It is seen as Q factor increase.
Coil resonate better.

Quote from:   on 2021.04.15, 23:04:19
Is it better than these methods for obtaining high Q which avoid the dominant dielectric losses of the wire's insulation ?
https://www.lessmiths.com/~kjsmith/crystal/coilq.shtml
https://www.w8ji.com/loading_inductors.htm
https://hamwaves.com/coils/en/

Anyway, I was not asking about intermediate effects but about the fundamental Modus Operandi that Stalker mentioned in these videos:
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI?t=1978
https://youtu.be/v6FrGTF731o?t=1646

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.15, 20:19:53
Well,  the standing wave is the result of 2 moving waves (forward and reflected, see gif in AG his post #133 above).

I should have tailored the Grenade coil so that both the LC resonance frequency and that standing wave frequency are the same, but i fail to conclusively test that.

Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.15, 23:04:19
Is it better than these methods for obtaining high Q which avoid the dominant dielectric losses of the wire's insulation ?
https://www.lessmiths.com/~kjsmith/crystal/coilq.shtml
https://www.w8ji.com/loading_inductors.htm
https://hamwaves.com/coils/en/

Anyway, I was not asking about intermediate effects but about the fundamental Modus Operandi that Stalker mentioned in these videos:
https://youtu.be/ObQFTTJimuI?t=1978
https://youtu.be/v6FrGTF731o?t=1646

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.15, 20:19:53
Well,  the standing wave is the result of 2 moving waves (forward and reflected, see gif in AG his post #133 above).

I should have tailored the Grenade coil so that both the LC resonance frequency and that standing wave frequency are the same, but i fail to conclusively test that.

Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.16, 11:03:57
Mike,

This device work based on Tesla radiant energy receiver patent.
Tesla coil is a source, gradient coil is a receiver "plate".

Vasik

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.16, 14:20:11

   It is not perhaps more like a single wave reflecting back onto itself? Not two waves. Why, is it called a standing wave?
Is it not more like a carrier wave?

   Itsu, what exactly is keeping you from being able to control the LC frequency to match the standing wave frequency?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.16, 15:42:12
Nick,

yes, its a single (moving-1) wave reflected back (moving-2) onto itself causing at a fixed position a standing wave, see post #133 gif.

I have no control over the standing wave frequency, it is fixed by the length of the wire, the purity of the used copper and the dielectricum of the insulation.
The calculator says 2.4Mhz for my 47m as a single layer coil, but i would like to "see"  that on my measurement equipment.

So far the calculator says 2.4Mhz for both LC (@ 218uH) and standing wave resonance (single layer coil).
I measure the 2.4MHz LC resonance (@ 217uH) on that single layer coil, but could not confirm the 2.4Mhz standing wave frequency.

The Grenade using the same 47m wire and the same (almost) inductance (225uH), but its LC resonance frequency seem to be 1.2Mhz which is half of the single layer coil, why? 
Added interwinding capacitance?

Its standing wave frequency looks to be 600Khz, so half of its LC frequency (1.2MHz), and that is what puzzles me, why again the halving, as i would expect it to be the same as the calculator / single long coil (2.4MHz) as the length of the cable did not change.

So enough to test/understand still.

Itsu

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.16, 20:25:32
If so, still the question why half the calculated frequency?

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.16, 13:39:27
Verpies:  Have any of the above methods being known to provide for self running???  If not, then yes, IT IS better... and we need to confirm that.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.15, 14:22:47
It is seen as Q factor increase.
Coil resonate better.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.17, 08:31:03
Thanks Vasik,   
I understand what you are saying, it must be something like that.
I too was looking for 2.5mm (5mm²) wire, but normal sizes are 1.5, 2.5, 4, 6, 10 etc mm², not 5mm²
The closest i could find was 10 AWG wire (2.58mm  /  5.26mm²).
Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.17, 08:53:35
I found this PDF, there is for example 4160500 wire (page 6), 2.5mm sq. 4mm insulation diameter, isn't it what we are looking for ?

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.17, 08:53:35
Itsu,

You mentioned wire diameters and it make me think is it actually diameter or cross section ?
I found this PDF, there is for example 4160500 wire (page 6), 2.5mm sq. 4mm insulation diameter, isn't it what we are looking for ?

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.17, 10:19:00
Well, i understood that Stalker used a caliper to measure the copper wire to be 2.5mm   which would be 5mm².

Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.17, 16:16:16
Itsu,

I am browsing my archive and I see that on Alexev's schematics specified H07V-K 2.5mm sq. wire.
But at same time there is a picture of 10AWG wire bobbin.
But insulation/outer wire diameter never specified.
I think if you use 3.4 vs 4mm that will give significantly more capacitance. That could be why you see different (lower) frequencies.
My current guess that both wires should work.
I will do more search, perhaps I can find something more.

Vasik

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.17, 17:06:33
Found information about wire Sergey Stalker using in youtube comments

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.17, 18:34:47
Is anyone here archiving and making available all these videos?

Being that they are on youtube, they could disappear any day.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.17, 17:06:33
Found information about wire Sergey Stalker using in youtube comments

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.17, 20:40:31
I made a single loop with the SA probe (instead of open connection against the grenade) and this seems to pick up some more signals (FG max 20Vpp sine wave @ 613KHz).

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.17, 20:53:10
If that 613kHz signal feeds a low reactance coil, then this 20V_p-p signal from the 50Ω FG would be loaded down to millivolts.  Measure the voltage amplitude across this coil to see if it is a problem.
If that is a problem, then the solution to this would be your EL2009 low impedance follower. It works down to DC ...and protects the FG's output, too.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.18, 06:32:50
Itsu,

It could be that version 2 winding style have smaller capacitance,
because one wire goes between layers. It probably affects these higher frequencies resonances.
May be you can try it at some point.
Other option would be probably try 4mm sq wire.

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.18, 08:17:07
I think i will go for the 4mm² wire to match as close as possible the circumstances / hardware.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.18, 08:17:07
Meanwhile i will be building the pushpull / synchronizer (TL494 / 4093's).

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.18, 12:10:55

In my opinion, the signal-generating portion can even be improved by using automatic phase tracking techniques like we once did by combining the TL494 with the 74HC4046 PLL.

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.18, 15:01:17
verpies Hi; yes the later would be a good move, you say once I don't suppose you have a pointer to that idea or a box link drawing ?

Regards SIL

Itsu Question, Also re the grenade drawing notice the purple link wires well are they part of the wind and if so does it affect the wave length node position or what side of witch coil or are the extra bits in the wind length of or are they invisible to the wind and purity of the coil it self  ?

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.18, 15:01:17
Verpies Hi; yes the later would be a good move, you say once I don't suppose you have a pointer to that idea or a box link drawing ?

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.18, 12:10:55
In my opinion, while replicating these type of devices, the coil (or transformer) construction is very critical (including insulation material of the wire), so I applaud your decision to replicate this component as close as possible to the original.


However, signal generating circuits are not critical at all, when the target waveform is known. In fact, most of their functionality can be replicated with your FG alone (minus the high power components). Bursts of multiple pulses (почки импульсов) are a piece of cake for your FG at any frequency ...up to its rating.
In my opinion, the signal generating portion can even be improved by using automatic phase tracking techniques like we once did by combining the TL494 with the 74HC4046 PLL.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.17, 20:53:10
If that 613kHz signal feeds a low reactance coil, then this 20V_p-p signal from the 50Ω FG would be loaded down to millivolts.  Measure the voltage amplitude across this coil to see if it is a problem.
If that is a problem, then the solution to this would be your EL2009 low impedance follower. It works down to DC ...and protects the FG's output, too.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.18, 18:51:07
The PLL system you mention was presented on this forum here:
https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3472.msg62527#msg62527
It includes a diagram and video.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.18, 19:48:55
i pumped up my FG input into the grenade to allow more signals to be seen by my SA, but there are not much more signals, only stronger, see screenshot.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.18, 19:58:02
It should be mentioned that the R15, R16, R17, R18, R19 R20 should be high-precision resistors and RV4 should be adjusted so the waveform on the TL494.pin5 is exactly the same as when the TL494 is operating alone in its STANDARD application note straight from its datasheet.
I also remember that the v & i comparators made with U2a and U2b are configured with hysteresis (adjustable by RV1 and RV2) in order to handle variable amplitude noisy analog signals and to convert them to simple digital rectangular pulses on pins 3 and 14 of the 74HC4046. 

However, hysteresis introduces inherent phase shifts of its own, so more effort should be put into improving these i & v comparators in order to eliminate these phase shifts ...but that is nothing difficult or exotic.
If anyone here has a good idea how to improve them easily, please share it.

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.18, 20:28:35
Hi verpies I'm getting an error for that pointer says it's off limits or lost, any chance if you can re publish it for refgerance? many thanks SIL

QuoteIt should be mentioned that the R15, R16, R17, R18, R19 R20 should be high-precision resistors and RV4 should be adjusted so the waveform on the TL494.pin5 is exactly the same as when the TL494 is operating alone in its STANDARD application note straight from its datasheet.
I also remember that the v & i comparators made with U2a and U2b are configured with hysteresis (adjustable by RV1 and RV2) in order to handle variable amplitude noisy analog signals and to convert them to simple digital rectangular pulses on pins 3 and 14 of the 74HC4046.

However, hysteresis introduces inherent phase shifts of its own, so more effort should be put into improving these i & v comparators in order to eliminate these phase shifts ...but that is nothing difficult or exotic.
If anyone here has a good idea how to improve them easily, please share it.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.19, 09:03:52
Got my 4mm² wire, it measures (caliper) 4.2mm outer diameter and 2.5mm core diameter, so insulation is 0.85mm.

Doing some calculations with that data and.....37.5m    coincidence?


Length: 37.5m
combined resonance frequency: 3.05MHz
induction: 143uH
nbr turns: 220

Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.19, 13:52:41
@Nick

The material (e.g. polypropylene) and thickness of the pipe walls affects the dielectric constant of the entire coil.
So it is almost as significant as the properties of the wire insulation.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.19, 20:40:15
Not sure how to continue now, build the 37.5m version on a 3.5mm walled bobbin or build a 45m version on a 2mm walled bobbin like Stalker and compare with his findings.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.19, 20:40:15
Not sure how to continue now, build the 37.5m version on a 3.5mm walled bobbin or build a 45m version on a 2mm walled bobbin like Stalker and compare with his findings.

I think the latter is better as i always can short the length to 37.5m

Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.19, 22:14:43
Maybe both?
Anyway, what is the material of your bobbins?  polypropylene, poly vinyl chloride PVC, polyethylene, etc... ?

P.S.
^{When you finish making the coil it wold be nice to see low duty cycle picopulse response of this coil.  Your picopulses are only ~100V and shorter than your kV nanopulses, so they are safer and better suited for Test & Measurement of the coil. 
If you do this, make sure that no reverberations happen. This means that the pulse that is reflected from the coil and comes back to the measuring point, at the picopulser, is completely absorbed there by well matched impedance and does not reflect back to the coil.  If you don't do this, you will have echos of echos of echos of echos...}

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.20, 06:39:38
I traced pcb for this project.
Will order and build boards occasionally.
Sharing here in case somebody want try it also.

Have fun,
Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.20, 08:45:43
Thanks for the PCB, it looks to be the circuits in the RK.pdf on page 33 (push pull board with synchronization output for Tesla coil) and the one on page 35 (Kacher* control board) driving a transistor (2sc5200) with 3 fets, is that correct?

Quote
I would ratcher build the MOSFET kacher driver shown on page 34 (Tesla control board), instead of the transistor drive, but i can always switch over to a separate board for that.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.19, 22:14:43
Maybe both?
Anyway, what is the material of your bobbins?  polypropylene, poly vinyl chloride PVC, polyethylene, etc... ?

P.S.
^{When you finish making the coil it wold be nice to see low duty cycle picopulse response of this coil.  Your picopulses are only ~100V and shorter than your kV nanopulses, so they are safer and better suited for Test & Measurement of the coil. 
If you do this, make sure that no reverberations happen. This means that the pulse that is reflected from the coil and comes back to the measuring point, at the picopulser, is completely absorbed there by well matched impedance and does not reflect back to the coil.  If you don't do this, you will have echos of echos of echos of echos...}

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.20, 10:22:17
Verpies, Itsu,

I have a question about this.
When we have two wires transmission line e.g. coax cable on biffilar coil, it is clear how to feed it from pulse generator and see reflections.
But in this case, we have just a coil, how would you connect it to the pulse generator to see reflections ?

Thanks,
Vasik

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.20, 11:48:58
I made some improvements in translation.
Please let me know if you see some irregularities.
Let's improve translation together.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.19, 09:03:52
Got my 4mm² wire, it measures (caliper) 4.2mm outer diameter and 2.5mm core diameter, so insulation is 0.85mm.

Doing some calculations with that data and.....37.5m    coincidence?


Length: 37.5m
combined resonance frequency: 3.05MHz
induction: 143uH
nbr turns: 220


Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.21, 11:47:24
How long is the helix ?
Math says 4.2mm * 214 = 898.8mm, but what is the reality ?

Anyway, why does it look so different from Vasik's diagram (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90895#msg90895) ?

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.21, 11:47:24
How long is the helix ?
Math says 4.2mm * 214 = 898.8mm, but what is the reality ?

Anyway, why does it look so different from Vasik's diagram (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg90895#msg90895) ?

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.21, 13:58:11
   Verpies:
   It is a single coil, unlike the grenade or gradient coil. As the calculator only works for the straight single coils. But, not for the grenade type of coils.

   My question remains, why 37.5 or 42, or 46 meters long??? WHY that size?  It that size a "ONE SIZE fits all"??? 
Because I doubt it... As Russia is on the other side of the world, from where I am. And frequencies may not be the same.
So what is the grenade size or self resonant frequency being matched to? 
   Maybe I should test to see if my set up will self run at less than 100w output. Like Vasik mentions...  But,   I know it won't...

   NickZ

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.20, 09:03:26
Itsu,
Yes, this is correct.
Sergey says that it is much easier to get system working with kacher, so I decided use it for now.

Vasik

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.21, 16:18:04
Nick lets take a look at the 37.5 mtr Grenade it has 14 sections of  ¼ wave made up of

4 wound one way and 4 back the other way =8 sections used

next we have the ½ wave section 2 sections one way and 2 the other way back = 4 ¼ wave sections
so now we have used 12 of the ¼ wave sections .

Next we have one layer of the ¼ sections wound one way and another on top wound the other way
So that's a total of 14 ¼ wave sections.

Now the next problem is finding the width of each ¼ wave that's wound occupies

One way to do this is with Ruislan/Panov  formula is to devide by 2 and convert the mtrs to cmtrs
So 37.5 meters would be a grenade width of  18.75 cmtrs so each ¼ wave width is 4.6875 cm.
That's my calculation if any knows any better let me know.

SIL

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.21, 15:48:40
   Itsu:
   Ok, I'm trying to wrap my head around this. Thanks for your explanation. I pretty much get that.
But, I still don't see what or how any of the calculator info has to do with Spacial Resonant frequencies, to tune to in the first place. So, that the "bobbin" cores, wire used, turn count etz... match the surrounding energy fields. Perhaps that has nothing to do with it? But, I feel that it does. Like tuning into a radio signal. Like Radio Moscow...  Or not? Which my device tends to go in and out of, like a poor radio signal does on a normal radio receiver.

  Ok, so let see what happens at 3MHz, if there is any one home, there. The trick then is to match the LC resonant frequency to the Standing wave, both  at 3MHz, or so. That is, IF there is a standing wave to be found there.

   NickZ

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.21, 19:05:30

Nick,

that "Spacial Resonant frequencies" and "match the surrounding energy fields" is something i think you have running around in your head  ;) , its not something Stalker is talking about.

I don't think it is like a radio signal, as its more or less pumping energy from the ground to my understanding.

Your "Radio Moscow" you and others report, i think, is feedback/oscillations in your circuits (TL494 => Kacher and back) and could be solved by shielding and/or decoupling your signals/voltages.


   itsu:  Ok, thanks again for your input.
    If I don't hear the "radio moscow" sound, I know that I don't have and won't have any interaction. That's why I pay attention to it.
As far as pumping energy from the ground, I don't think that is the case. Yet, we see that the ground is needed, and it's part of the circuit.
Although, there is no agreement as to the ground line size. 10m 20m 40m...
   What I'm asking was not brought up, you're right. So, WHY is the grenade coil made at 37.5 or 46m. What's with THAT size?
Is that not an important question? Or, is that the magic frequency?  Or, maybe no one knows??? Or cares.

Quote from: NickZ on 2021.04.21, 16:06:40
   Vasik:
   At one point some years ago, itsu and I were going to replicate the 3 mosfets, 1 transistor version of Stalker's controlable Kacher circuit.
Which is also tied and connected into the TL494 induction circuit board. Well, I did not get that far, but I did replicate Stalker's induction circuit, below. And I had planned on continuing on with the controllable Kacher.
   itsu chose an easier option for the kacher circuit at that time.  But, now Vasik has offered his version of the board for those same drivers and controllers. And so, I'm hoping to see Vasik's new board all assembled, and working. I suppose that is the idea for him. I'll be watching and waiting for that, and holding my breath.

   NickZ

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.21, 20:12:18
I do still have my doubts if this last test really shows the standing wave resonance and not again the LC resonance.

QuoteItsu,

my understanding is that pulse should be short enough, no exact match needed I think.

Vasik

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.22, 09:42:55
Itsu,

You have now coil with very close LC and wave resonances.
If you want observe them independently, you can connect small capacitor (e.g.10pf) parallel to the coil.
It will offset LC resonance frequency, wave resonance will stay as it it. You then will see two peaks on sweep.

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.22, 09:47:19

Hi vasik,

ok, but when you say "no exact match needed", does that means he is not using this setup to "exactly" determine the wave resonance frequency (what i thought he did)?

Itsu

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.22, 09:55:35
The LC resonance is very touchy, any movement of hand / body moves the resonance point, so i can use that.
But what do you mean by "You then will see two peaks on sweep"?   
You mean the sweep i used in my post #232 (screenshot 1) which i think only shows LC resonance or do you mean on the SA?
Itsu
P.S.  sorry to be so picky guys, but i think its important to get these two resonance points defined as clear as possible.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.22, 10:09:39
I mean that when LC and wave resonances matched (or very close) you see it as one resonance with very high Q.
If you de-tune coil e.g. with external capacitor then you can see resonances separately.
Sweep - I mean test where you feed frequency changing signal from SG and observe amplitude on scope.

Vasik

QuoteAs an exercise, to see difference between resonances and gain more understanding you could take e.g. 10m of coax cable and pulse it with short pulses.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.21, 20:12:18

Using Stalkers pulse amp circuit, it measured the standing wave resonance while one side was grounded (forcing it into ¼ wave).

The below screenshot shows the peaks after tuning for max. signal to be 3.059Mhz.

So it looks like this single coil is correct or very close to the matched resonances.


I do still have my doubts if this last test really shows the standing wave resonance and not again the LC resonance.

Itsu

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.22, 12:58:01
Hi Itsu.

I think I now understand what you are trying to do for this step, but what exactly are you doing in this test as a way to measure wave resonance?

Questions I have for anyone:

1) can one treat a single straight wire as a transmission line (TL)? If C component and coupling is to environment, I suppose yes.
2) assuming a single wire is a TL, can the same wire wrapped into a long solenoid still be thought of and treated as such, as the TL comprised of the straight wire above? Might the coiled TL be a tapered TL? Briefly, a tapered TL is one whose characteristic impedance (L&C) varies along the length of the TL. In such a TL, does the velocity factor (VF) also vary along the length?
3) how or does this affect the approach to the testing of such a TL?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.21, 20:12:18
I do still have my doubts if this last test really shows the standing wave resonance and not again the LC resonance.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.22, 15:28:04

Hi Poynt,

well, i uderstood from Stalker his video / text (rk_rev2.pdf on page 58/59 and on) that he determined the wave resonance by using the pulse duty cycle, like being done in TDR measurements.

But it turns out its not an accurate way to do so according to a comment from Vasik41 in his post #239 above.

So i still am trying to find a way to confirm the LC resonance and wave resonance points are identical or very close (as per calculator) before going to the next step which is to rewind it as a Grenade coil and do the same measurements there.

Itsu

QuoteIf I understand correctly, then you are pulsing the coil at its resonant LC frequency, but using a 3.7% duty cycle? What then would we be looking for in terms of determining the wave resonance? Are the +250V ~50ns wide pulses not just inductive kickback pulses?

QuoteIs the ultimate goal to match the LC resonance with the wave resonance? Sounds like that might be a lofty goal.

QuoteIf I was looking to determine the wave resonance of that coil/TL, I would start by applying
a single pulse at one end and see if there is a reflection back (assuming the scope probe is
measuring at the signal insertion point).
If there is a reflection, then determining the timing between the initial pulse to the
reflected pulse should allow you to determine the wave resonance.
The other end's termination should be open or shorted, but should not matter which for this
simple test (only difference is one reflection will be inverted, and the other non-inverted).

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.22, 19:37:52
Lofty as in impossible?

Quote
That is a good approach for a coax or 2 line wire, but as we are dealing with a single wire coil its not that easy (lofty even), see post #217 where we were discussing this (see link there too).

I tried it yesterday but no reflection was seen using the surrounding environment as return.

Regards Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.22, 17:13:55
It's good to have doubts.

You should perform a self-educational experiment by taking a looooong piece of 50Ω coax and setting it up for a TDR measurement. Verify that the classic pulse reflection is visible when the coax is shorted and opened at the far end.
Next, connect a parallel combination of a ferrite torroidal coil and a good cap instead of the open and short termination at the far end. Verify that the TDR experiment still works. The LC resonant frequency of the coil&cap does not matter as long as it is different from that round trip reflection in the coax.

While you still measure the pulse reflections from the far end of the coax in the TDR manner, add another stimulating frequency^* that will resonate the lumped LC circuit connected at the end of the coax.  Can you discern the round trip reflection in the coax from the response of the LC circuit at its end?
You can do all that using your FG and scope.  Use my FG programming technique to make it output nanosecond pulses (I made my 1st video about it ...if you remember).

* ^{That can take a form of two different frequency sine waves added together, ...or a rectangular pulse train of specific duty cycle and pulse repetition frequency.}

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.22, 18:36:43
Setup like this can be used to see coil's resonances.
There is a link to a video and short summary about this circuit in PDF file.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.22, 21:36:17
Not impossible, but possibly a great challenge.

What did you use as a return termination for your scope/TDR?

I would suggest trying earth ground, and if no joy there, try using a metal sheet under the coil. I realize this may alter the resonance frequency, but it still could provide a valuable result.

One other thing that may be killing the reflection is the connection to the TDR or pulse generator after the pulse has been sent. If the connection could be broken (high impedance) then the reflection may be measurable. One possible way of achieving this would be to use a 3-state driver (https://www.nexperia.com/products/analog-logic-ics/asynchronous-interface-logic/buffers-inverters-drivers/74AHC1G126GV.html) (doesn't have to be big current or voltage) and design it so the high impedance state is selected right after the pulse is sent.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.22, 16:32:35
Here is a transcript. May be it helps.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.23, 14:45:10
Did you make a transcript of this video, too ?
https://youtu.be/v6FrGTF731o

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.23, 09:19:28
Itsu,

Z for your coil is 2.7Kohm (sqr(143uH/19pF))
I think you need add 2.7K resistor in series with pulse source to match impedance and see reflections.

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.23, 15:57:42
Thanks, i can try that when using a strip of copper tape underneath the long coil to act as a return.

Itsu

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.24, 10:27:09
This 200ns points to a length of 59.8m (no velocity factor yet) which is the length of the coil wire plus the 1m copper strip length.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.24, 11:31:02
I don't think you can add the length of the copper strip like that any more than you can add the length of the shield in a coaxial cable.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.24, 12:34:18
Hmmm,  when pulsing a shorted coax, the (negative) pulse travels along the shield back to the beginning, doesn't it, so we include (add) that length of the shield too  don't we?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.24, 12:34:18
Hmmm,  when pulsing a shorted coax, the (negative) pulse travels along the shield back to the beginning, doesn't it, so we include (add) that length of the shield too  don't we?

itsu

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.24, 16:12:41
I made a video of the tiny pulse / bump i see when shorting the far end of the coil.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.24, 17:00:30
Itsu,

I tried similar experiment with one of my coils laying around.
I have 20ns pulse generator made with 74ac04. I connected it through 100k variable resistor to one coil end
and adjusted resistor to get forward and reflected pulse amplitudes somewhere close.
Here pictures when second end grounded and left in the air.
Pictures distorted, but I think it is clearly that some kind of reflection is there and it change polarity.
Scope probe on the first coil end.

I guess you will see something similar if you connect scope to the coil.
Of course it has capacitance, but now you have about 50x divider (2.7k vs 50 ohm).

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.24, 19:29:10
Vasik, 

that worked nicely

Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.24, 18:29:12
That is a really tiny pulse!  I don't mind its small amplitude but I do mind its high fall/rise time.  The long coil's terminals hanging outside of the groundplane are not helping.
To do this experiment without the groundplane, you'd need to use a differential picopulser that simultaneously applies a positive pulse and a negative pulse to a break in the coil at its midpoint and converts the reflection from the symmetrical to single-ended form, for visualization on the single-ended grounded scope.  I don't think that any ferrite-based balun can handle picopulses.
Anyway, that ~100ns reflection (~200ns round trip) most likely corresponds to the 11.7MHz frequency.

If you make a VNA S11 or VSWR measurement, the best results would be obtained by connecting^* the VNA to a break in the wire at the midpoint of the coil, ...or winding a second identical coil and connecting^* the VNA between these 2 coils.
If you do not want to break the wire or wind a 2^nd coil then you are left with driving the coil with a low-turn loop, but this loop will not influence the coil at only one point like an electric connection ...and this loop has its own RF characteristics that hopefully can be calibrated out.

^{*  with an SMA panel socket of course ;)}

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.24, 20:24:16
So i used my nanoVNA to see if using its VSWR function will show anything usefull.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.04.24, 20:27:22
The reflection was always there Itsu, but was being snuffed out by the pulser. That's why I suggested you remove the pulser after the pulse is sent.

The 2k7 resistor may or may not be allowing maximum power into the coil (I'm not yet convinced), but I think you would see an even bigger reflection if you used no resistor, but sensed the reflection with the pulser disconnected. You might try a diode in series (A-K) with your pulser as an auto-disconnect. Of course you will need to select the correct polarity of reflection (positive, so open-ended) for it to work.

Anyway, it appears now that your probe is on the correct side of the resistor, you have enough signal to determine what you need.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.24, 23:39:00
It does show the classic dipole response, which is very useful for determining its electric length, but I think there might be a problem with the OSL calibration of your VNA.

I did not pay attention to it before, but now I will look into it.

First of all, the excitation loop must be connected to the VNA during all three stages of the calibration: open, short and load.  :o
Because the DUT is located inside the excitation loop, only the conditions inside that loop must change during the three calibration stages  ???

When the exciation loop is empty (i.e the Stalker's coil is absent from it), that must be the OPEN condition for the VNA. In that condition the calibrated VSWR should approach infinity and │S11│ - unity.  Is that true after your calibration ?
You may ask why ?  A: Because there is no current flowing at the midpoint of the Stalker coil when that coil is entirely removed from the loop (obviously).  The excitation loop does have current flowing in it, but you are not interested in it because you are trying to measure the current flowing in the midpoint of the Stalker coil - not in the excitation loop.

The SHORT condition would be equivalent to entirely filling the excitation loop with a copper cylinder^*, because that simulates the lowest impedance that this loop can achieve.  In that condition the calibrated VSWR should approach infinity and │S11│ - unity, as well.

Finally, the LOAD condition would be equivalent to filling the excitation loop with a slotted copper pipe^* that has a 50Ω resistor^** across that slot.

Sorry to complicate it so much, but these are the consequences of using an excitation loop and calibrating it properly.  I only hope it makes sense.


* ^{or at least a copper pipe or disk or ring}
** ^{The impedance of an ideally matched dipole is 73Ω+43j so a 73Ω resistor would seem better, but Stalker's coil is closer to a helical antenna, which has a different impedance when matched.  I do not know what that impedance is for a low pitch helix antenna like this. It would be interesting to determine that matching impedance by seeking the lowest VSWR when fed with 1/2 wavelength resonance frequency.}

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.25, 10:12:34
I did a quick and dirty new calibration using some copper foil as tubing, see picture, but the result is kind of chaotic for now, see screenshot

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.25, 08:57:13

Right, the flipping signal does signal something, not sure what as the numbers don't add up for me.

The now yellow negative going pulse when i short the coil to the copper strip (1m) can be seen after 189.3ns (delta yellow cursors).

With speed of light in air/vacuum being around 0.299m/ns (29.9cm/ns) this reflected signal is equivalent to 0.299 x 189.3 = 56.6m

Taken the guestimated velocity factor of 0.66 (66%), it calculates to 37.35m which is so very close to the real 37.5m length of the coils wire.

If the signal still travels forth and back it would mean we should divide by 2 meaning 18.67m

Is this (almost exact) 50% reduction then due to the fact that this is a coil, not a straight wire?

Itsu

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.27, 01:10:37
I have been trying to re tune the coil using a selection of caps across the 37.5Mtr winding

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.27, 22:49:45
I'm sure they do, nothing is perfect in this life, but then again wold you expect the resonant peakes to be where
we would expect them to be where the coil harmonics are ?

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.27, 23:18:54
Did you ever perform an experiment like the one described here (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3926.msg91141#msg91141) ?

QuoteSuppose I have a tesla coil running at 100khz and another one running at 140khz  what freq would you expect if you used that idea on the output ?

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.28, 14:18:48
Suppose I have a tesla coil running at 100khz and another one running at 140khz  what freq would you expect if you used that idea on the output ?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.29, 15:06:41
Thanks Vasik,
good to know,  but can you share "similar boards" meaning the Gerber files or the real boards?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.29, 15:06:41
Seems my new Grenade when shorted/grounded resonates around 1.220MHz (1st) and 5.6MHz (2nd).
Itsu

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.04.29, 15:31:22
I mean gerber files.
Everyone can then order boards from convenient manufacturer e.g. from itead.cc
I have some unused boards, but sending them will cost probably more than order a bunch of new ones.

Vasik

QuoteItsu,

I think this is great news :) you got two resonances similar to Sergey's example.
Have you tried test with fluorescent lamp ? can you stop "stripes" ?
Does the coil heats up ?

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.04.29, 20:48:38
I did some quick test using the pulse amp and was able to get the fluro lamp rings visible and stopping at some frequency points (1.216Mhz and 1.9MHz).

But the rings (and fluro lamp) are not that bright, and changing the distance to the coil has influence too.

Ground lead of the coil was grounded to the house ground.

Afterwards, there was some 4 to 5 °C increase along the coil above ambient especially on the layer 6 part.

Will do some further tests tomorrow.

Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.28, 21:15:57
40kHz, 100kHz, 140kHz, 280kHz  ...and possibly multiples of these frequencies.

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.30, 09:36:03
I don't suppose you could dig up any wave form simulations of the prosess in a real time demonstration
to show what is expected?

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.30, 09:36:03
However you did show a 90 deg phase shift demo in early OU pages.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.30, 10:14:39
I can dig up a simulator but not a simulation.
A phase shift will occur any time an AC current flows in an inductance or capacitance.
When you ask about phase shift, between what two objects is it?

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.04.30, 11:36:49
[ Hi yes I'm aware of that phenomena but as your the professor here would it be in order to ask what criteria would have to be in place
Mathematically formula, and or practical to achieve a stable 90 degree phase shift ?
other than using logic for the shift and an op-amp for the modulation  >:-)

Quote from: verpies on 2021.04.30, 18:10:15
Look, we cannot even begin talking about a phase shift until you define the two objects between which the phase shift occurs, which you are interested in.
The math formulas for LC phase shifts are trivial but I must know what to apply them to.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.01, 17:21:49
So what is the going theory about the moving striations in the fluorescent tube?
The wavelength of a 1.22MHz or 2MHz RF standing wave in the Stalker's coil is way too long to explain these striations which are centimetres apart, ...even if the velocity factor in that coil were 10% c.

Is it being explained the same way as the striations in the positive column (https://youtu.be/zcpDGKH9_SE?t=2423) of a gas discharge ?

@Itsu:
Does a fluorescent tube^* of a different diameter and length show the same striations spacing and movement ?

^{*... or a "neon sign" tube with a different gas composition.}

QuoteSo what is the going theory about the moving striations in the fluorescent tube?
The wavelength of a 1.22MHz or 2MHz RF standing wave in the Stalker's coil is way too long to explain these striations which are centimetres apart, ...even if the velocity factor in that coil were 10% c.

Is it being explained the same way as the striations in the positive column of a gas discharge ?

Quote@Itsu:
Does a fluorescent tube* of a different diameter and length show the same striations spacing and movement ?

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.05.01, 17:40:51
It would be of benefit to many in my opinion if someone came forward to explain the fundamentals of this and related projects in general, and as a whole. I'm not certain if anyone here knows the theory of operation, but if they do, I haven't seen evidence of it.

Perhaps this project would progress more smoothly and more quickly if all were on the same page. For myself, I can't offer much input otherwise.

A comprehensive block diagram, and explanation of the function and purpose of each block would go a long way I believe.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.01, 19:30:51
Here i understand that these rings represent/visualize the "longitudinal standing wave" created by the combination of LC resonance and wave resonance in the grenade coil.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.01, 19:30:51
....the pattern of rings across the whole Grenade coil (and beyond) is similar meaning stopped/almost stopped rings at the thick part, outside going rings on either ends (right direction on right side, left direction left side), see picture.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.01, 19:30:51
No again, a long tube (120cm) has its rings stopped around 1.228MHz, while a shorter (60cm) tube has its rings stopped around 1.221Mhz.
Short video here:  https://youtu.be/r7EYwsgIHmM

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.01, 19:57:26
And frequency of beatings some how linked to the size and motion of the stripes on the fluorescent lamp.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.01, 19:50:50
Poynt99,

have you seen Sergey's explanation ?

Vasik

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.01, 22:05:18
The problem is that the spacings between the striations in the fluorescent tubes cannot be explained by the beat between the RF frequency of the TL & LC resonances alone.  The wavelengths are just too long - tens of meters vs centimeters...  and the arithmetical difference between these frequencies has even a longer wavelength.

Quote from: muDped on 2021.05.02, 02:45:48
What are these alternating bright and dark rings in fluorescent lamp? (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/350568/what-are-these-alternating-bright-and-dark-rings-in-fluorescent-lamp)

Quote from: muDped on 2021.05.02, 02:45:48
What are these alternating bright and dark rings in fluorescent lamp? (https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/350568/what-are-these-alternating-bright-and-dark-rings-in-fluorescent-lamp)

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.05.02, 09:45:31
Also point99
Re your statement on members IQ on this subject, have you any idea how many techniques are actually used in the construction of one of these devices ?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.02, 09:02:20
Hmmm,   if i roughly measure the distance between 2 rings of the longer tube (left side) on my photo from post #320 to be 10cm, then with the equations in the 2nd answer of Mudped
his link, i get  f=v/λ   f=241000/0.1    f=2.41Mhz, which is about the frequencies used being 1.22 (half) and 2Mhz.

I will do some exact measurements later today, including the "magnet on a stick" test.

Thanks,  Itsu

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.02, 09:02:20
Hmmm,   if i roughly measure the distance between 2 rings of the longer tube (left side) on my photo from post #320 to be 10cm, then with the equations in the 2nd answer of Mudped
his link, i get  f=v/λ   f=241000/0.1    f=2.41Mhz, which is about the frequencies used being 1.22 (half) and 2Mhz.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.02, 19:13:51
Remeasuring the distance between the rings show that they are much less then the earlier reported 10cm, more like 3cm and no difference between what frequency.

QuoteThis is a cascading effect.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.03, 08:36:04
So the question still remains if the rings (striations) when stationary have any relation to a standing wave (in combination with LC resonance).

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.03, 14:48:20
I have no indication that "a weaker E-field causes the spacing between striations to increase", but its hard to see as moving the tube parallel away a little from the coil also makes any stationary striations start to move and vise versa.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.03, 15:18:27
That movement is something else.  IMO the motion is caused by the difference between the time it takes the mercury ions to accelerate from 0 to 4.9eV and the time it takes the E-field to cycle from 0 to its maximum value.
Can you get your hands on tubes filled with a different gas, e.g.: "neon sign" tubes?

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.03, 16:48:49
I am wondering what benefits such experiment could give ?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.03, 20:29:20
I agree it could be important to know if those rings have any relation to the wavelength to avoid loosing time with tuning.

I have no neon sign tubes though, but will be on the lookout for them.

Itsu

Quote from: poynt99 on 2021.05.02, 14:31:02
Would you not agree that any system, no matter how complicated, can be broken down into its main blocks, and each block described in terms of its function and purpose and how it relates to the other blocks?

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.05.05, 11:52:25
Vasik041[/b] Hi you published a ink a while back to
     Объяснение Капаген-эффекта - Часть 7.
have you any links to the other 6 please ?

regards SIL

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.06, 20:02:23
I completed the PushPull Kacher synced pcb and made some first tests:

Scope shows yellow/blue the TL494 output (20KHz @ 33% Duty Cycle), purple inverted output to kacher driver.

Frequency adjustable between 17.9KHz and 117KHz.

Also winding the "inductor" around the lower part Grenade using the below (¼ wave length) table, meaning around 9.5m long, aiming for half the Grenade inductance (143uH), so 72uH.

Itsu

Quote
Text on top: scope traces for 38/19m coils. Yoke primary coils are 14 turns, 5 turns for resonance on 19m and 0.15uF, 0.3uF on gradient coil. Load connected through diode bridge and non-polar filter capacitors 20uF.

Yellow trace: gradient coil current 23 degrees ahead of LC
Red: push pull LC current (through capacitor)

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.05.06, 23:04:06
Itsu this circuit might be of use, no idea where it came from note large caps used around trhe coils no comments on them though.
SIL

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.07, 04:50:49
I think this is from one of earlier Alexeev's schematics, here is original (I guess)

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.05.07, 09:40:22
On an educational aspect here, thanks for that diagnosium  ;D Re demo link p13 one of vids shows 90
phase shift added to wave before it goes into yoke.

Wesley's news video shows tap at 3/4 way along tesla coil (or is it FW grenade,
is that introduced into system some where ?

SIL

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.05.07, 09:40:22
Top left of pic  >    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev-44qaQ9dk

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.07, 13:56:48
Here some information about the clip (see attached file).

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.07, 15:50:19
In that file, you use the word "modulation" several times.
What type of modulations is it?  There are 4 basic types (FM, AM, PM, PW) and many subtypes.

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.05.07, 09:40:22
Wesley's news video shows tap at 3/4 way along tesla coil (or is it FW grenade,
is that introduced into system some where ?    >    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAPe3DiYt2o

Quote from: AlienGrey on 2021.05.07, 20:14:17
Its that coil and som others in one of Wesley news vids with a close up of a needle stuck in the coil at the start of the last 90 deg section
you cant realy see it as the resolution in that video loses it, possably at 270 deg

SIL

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.08, 20:24:59
I would expect to see a much shorter base signal pulsing the kacher on/off like in this circuit:

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.08, 23:52:10
What are the signals on pins 1 & 7 of the IR2113 ?
Is this IC the IR2113 or IR2113S ?

Also, how does that base signal look with the antenna wire disconnected from the base and the collector connected to +V with a non-inductive resistor^*?

^{*Large enough as not to exceed the transistor's maximum collector current (I_C).}

QuoteAlso, how does that base signal look with the antenna wire disconnected from the base and the collector connected to +V with a non-inductive resistor*?

_{*Large enough as not to exceed the transistor's maximum collector current (IC).}

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.09, 05:37:35
Hi Itsu,

It seems that there is an error in the original schematic, or I miss one inversion (sorry for that).
According to my understanding TC signal should be inverted.
You can achieve this by reconnecting it like shown on the picture (pls. see attached)
Or perhaps you can make it shorter adjusting RV7 ?

So most of the time kacher should be off and Q6 base grounded through Q4 (IRF3205)
and it should be on just for a short time (5-6 HF pulses)
Also I would suggest do not connect scope probe directly to hot end of the kacher secondary coil, it will offset frequency (just left scope probe laying close to it)

About gradient coil inductor: Sergey says that you can increase inductance if you add some cardboard (or thick paper) under it (so diameter will be bigger ans so inductance)

Vasik

Edit: removed picture because it not needed

QuoteItsu,

After checking schematic one more time I found my mistake.
No need for extra inversion.
IR2110 outputs 1 and 7 are swapped.
You can fix it by re-soldering R11 and R12.

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 08:49:07
The signals on pins 1 and 7 of the IR2113 are like shown in the above handdrawn diagram, the delay on pin 7 is very small, but they look like it should be.

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.09, 05:37:35
It seems that there is an error in the original schematic, or I miss one inversion (sorry for that).

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 11:43:17
Hi Vasik,
Well, like you can see on your own expanded / corrected view in post #364, the routing goes as follows (red traces):
Comparing to the diagram and handdrawn circuit, thats how it should be i think.
Ok about the s=tuning.pdf, i will have a look, thanks.
Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.09, 14:52:15
I did not check the schematic, so don't take my silence as a sign that it is OK.

Actually, I do not understand why this circuit (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3926.0;attach=39801) is configured that way at all, i.e.: a 230V, 15A BJT being driven by several MOSFETs.
Why not use one high-power N-ch MOSFET being driven by a specialized gate driver (e.g. the UCC27511), like it is done usually?

Also, I do not understand why the low/high side driver (IR2113) appears to drive two N-Channel MOSFETs (Q3 & Q4) which have their both sources grounded. 
Alas, the entire purpose of a high-side driver is to drive the gate of an N-channel MOSFET's, which typically has its source connected to a high voltage rail ( i.e.: not grounded ! ) in order to completely avoid using a P-channel MOSFET (like the Q5^*).

The high half of the IR2113 driver simply:
1) connects the HO output to the VB input when the the HIN input is high (and SD input is low).
2) connects the HO output to the VS input when the the HIN input is low (or SD input is low).
...while the VS and VB inputs are at voltage levels which are typically well ABOVE ground (also VB > VS+8.6V )^**.

Below is a diagram of this typical connection from the IR2113's datasheet:

The only advantage of the IR2113 driver (which are two drivers in one package: a low-side driver and high-side driver) over the UCC27511 driver, is its duality and the ability to output bipolar waveforms (colloquially: AC), while the UCC27511 driver can output only unipolar pulsating DC waveforms. 
By connecting together the COM and VS pins of the IR2113, that "AC output" advantage is nullified.

^{* this also makes the blocking diode on its drain unnecessary (re.: SR510).
** which is why I wanted to see these voltage levels simultaneously on both output pins.}

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.09, 13:23:29
Yeah, but that diagram does not show me the DC voltage levels of these pulses in your circuit nor the real the phase offset between these pulses

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.09, 15:04:19
Itsu,

I checked one more time and I still think that pins 1 and 7 should be swapped on PCB.
Please re-check.

Vasik

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.09, 14:52:15
I did not check the schematic, so don't take my silence as a sign that it is OK.

Actually, I do not understand why this circuit (https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3926.0;attach=39801) is configured that way at all, i.e.: a 230V, 15A BJT being driven by several MOSFETs.
Why not use one high-power N-ch MOSFET being driven by a specialized gate driver (e.g. the UCC27511), like it is done usually?

Also, I do not understand why the low/high side driver (IR2113) appears to drive two N-Channel MOSFETs (Q3 & Q4) which have their both sources grounded. 
Alas, the entire purpose of a high-side driver is to drive the gate of an N-channel MOSFET's, which typically has its source connected to a high voltage rail ( i.e.: not grounded ! ) in order to completely avoid using a P-channel MOSFET (like the Q5^*).

The high half of the IR2113 driver simply:
1) connects the HO output to the VB input when the the HIN input is high (and SD input is low).
2) connects the HO output to the VS input when the the HIN input is low (or SD input is high).
...while the VS and VB inputs are at voltage levels which are typically well ABOVE ground (also VB > VS+8.6V )^**.

Below is a diagram of this typical connection from the IR2113's datasheet:

(https://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3926.0;attach=39803)

The only advantage of the IR2113 driver (which are two drivers in one package: a low-side driver and high-side driver) over the UCC27511 driver, is its duality and the ability to pull up and pull down the load solely with N-ch MOSFETs, while an N-ch MOSFET driven by the single UCC27511 driver can only pull down the load.
By connecting together the COM and VS pins of the IR2113, that "push-pull" advantage solely with N-ch MOSFETs, is nullified.

^{* this also makes the blocking diode on its drain unnecessary (re.: SR510).
** which is why I wanted to see these voltage levels simultaneously on both output pins.}

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 16:04:22
Ok,  here the IR2113 pin 1(blue)  and pin 7 (yellow) signal / relations:

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 16:20:37
I agree,  and there is such a MOSFET circuit presented by Stalker, see here:

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 16:20:37
But it seems easier to use the Transistor drive circuit to get the required results.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 19:17:07
First thing i did was swapping pins 1 & 7 of the IR2113 and measuring again the base of the transistor (purple) which looks much better now.
I just cut the traces from IR2113 pins 1 & 7 short to the chip and rewired to correct points.
Not sure if i easily can measure the Q4 and Q5 drain currents as the pcb is compactly set up.
Itsu

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 19:17:07
Not sure if i easily can measure the Q4 and Q5 drain currents as the pcb is compactly set up.

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 20:00:00
This is the base voltage (27mVpp) across a 0.1 Ohm inductionfree resistor, so 270mApp:

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 16:20:37
...and there is such a MOSFET circuit presented by Stalker, see here:

Quote...and do you have the UCC37322 driver used in this circuit ?

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.09, 10:02:48
Itsu,

I think that pins swapped in PCB, please check.

Regrading tuning of the antenna in your video, here is Alexeev's video transcript explaining how it should look like.
Sergey Stalker says that ferrite rod should be "low frequency" i.e. rods from radio (magnetic antenna) are not suitable here. It is ok to use ring or some other shape core, but it should have big loss after 1MHz.

Vasik

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 20:38:59
So there is a difference between the Transistor Kacher drive circuit and the MOSFET Kacher drive circuit...

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.09, 20:51:16
concerning your s_tuning.pdf,   some questions:

Quote
1:01 this 2.2nF tuning cap, where should it go?  (across the primary of the Kacher coil)?

Quote
2:04 Where do the (26) HER108 / hvr1x3 diodes with parallel 330K-470K diodes go? (Kacher / antenna output to ground to create unidirectional pulses?)

Quote
2:48 With 5 (or 3) pulses he means the the amount of ringing pulses from the Kacher?

Quote
3:03  with "one coil 16KHz and second coil 8KHz, he means the grenade and Inductor?

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.10, 09:30:09
Thanks,   so we still have severall "possible modifications" and "secret details, usually not mentioned (and could be shown wrongly)".

Itsu

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.09, 22:54:42

The BJT does not conduct in either direction when it is off.

Quote from: partzman on 2021.05.10, 14:13:33
Actually, this is not correct.  The NPN for example (see image below) has a PN junction between the collector and base as shown.  This junction will conduct when the collector is taken more negative than the base voltage and if taken below the zener breakdown of the reverse emitter/base junction, there will be conduction between the collector and the emitter.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.08, 23:52:10
What are the signals on pins 1 & 7 of the IR2113 ?
Is this IC the IR2113 or IR2113S ?

Also, how does that base signal look with the antenna wire disconnected from the base and the collector connected to +V with a non-inductive resistor^*?

^{*Large enough as not to exceed the transistor's maximum collector current (I_C).}

Quote from: Itsu on 2021.05.10, 19:15:24
...the antenna wire is disconnected from the base and the collector is connected to +12V with a non-inductive resistor (350 Ohm 1%)
yellow = collector voltage
green  = base current
blue    = base voltage

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.10, 19:57:32
@Partzman
Where do you think the negative voltage on the base comes from?

Quote from: partzman on 2021.05.10, 21:25:54
If you or Itsu can point me to the correct schematic used to produce these waveforms, then we should be able to tell for sure!

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.10, 23:53:07
I think it is this one below.  Normally there is an antenna wire connected to the base of the Q6 and its collector drives the Kacher coil, but for the purpose of this test I asked Itsu to put a temporary resistor in its place and disconnect the antenna wire from the base.

Quote from: verpies on 2021.05.10, 23:53:07
I think it is this one below.  Normally there is an antenna wire connected to the base of the Q6 and its collector drives the Kacher coil, but for the purpose of this test I asked Itsu to put a temporary resistor in its place and disconnect the antenna wire from the base.

Quote from: picowatt on 2021.05.11, 01:09:34
I am looking for a schematic of how any coils and "antenna" are connected to the PCB screw terminals.

Quote from: picowatt on 2021.05.11, 01:09:34
Thanks, but I have that schematic.  It, and the board layout, were posted a couple pages back. 

I am looking for a schematic of how any coils and "antenna" are connected to the PCB screw terminals.  From Itsu's videos, it appears there is also a battery connected somewhere around J2 as well as what appears to be three coils on a form connected to the same connector.  But I'm just guessing.

Without seeing a schematic of how and what is connected to the screw terminals, it is hard to follow along.   

Also, it looks like an additional terminal set has been added just below C17 on the bipolar side.   

PW 

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.11, 04:37:56
Hi PW,

here a drawing.

Regards,
Vasik

Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021.05.09, 10:02:48
Sergey Stalker says that ferrite rod should be "low frequency" i.e. rods from radio (magnetic antenna) are not suitable here. It is ok to use ring or some other shape core, but it should have big loss after 1MHz.

Quote from: partzman on 2021.05.11, 02:04:57
... there would be a possibility of the "miller" effect coming into play with the early turn off of Q4 as the gate voltage is rapidly brought to ground with the gate to drain capacitance pulling the base voltage of Q6 below ground as seen.

Quote from: picowatt on 2021.05.11, 09:49:13
Vasik,

Thanks, that is what I was looking for.

What is connected to J1?

PW